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To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

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Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#111

Post by MichaelGG »

dleslie wrote: post #53
MichaelGG wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you exaggerating or are you seriously concerned that the police will harm you? No matter what your race/gender/color/face/etc., citizens are far more dangerous. There's simply tons of them. Even in the US, this whole police-violence thing is a bit of a red herring. Yes, it's terrible, police need to be checked more, etc. But no, it's not a "massacre" or remotely the top reason someone will be killed.

If I am assaulted and mugged I get some bruises and lose my wallet. Those are relatively minor outcomes compared to the enormous court expenses and years or a lifetime of damage that an officer can do. Hell, as per the article, the $300 to get my car out of impound would be a lot more than the pocket change I stand to lose in a mugging. Most well-fed sharks won't attack a human, but I'm not about to dive into the tan…

Bruises and a lost wallet are also minor compared to a transit accident. Yet I'm guessing you get around? They're less than the damage from choking to death, but I'm guessing you eat more than liquid food?

I don't think you're actually calculating the risk here.

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#112

Post by jaredklewis »

gravypod wrote: post #87
skywhopper wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they are trained (whether explicitly or informally between each other) to do this. It will continue so long as it works.

I'd like to ask you for a hypothetical. Say you are a police officer and one of your coworkers shouts "GUN" and you don't directly see one. You see your coworker freaking out, you see them drawing, and you see the other suspect moving. What do you do? Do you draw your gun/taser? I'd do that just going off of what my coworker has said. It's entirely reasonable to suspect there to be a gun. Now I'd like to run through…

Of course it isn't unreasonable to work together. But the officers in the article were colluding to cover their asses for breaking the law, not cooperating to ensure mutual safety. And indeed, this is a pattern I read and hear about often, unfortunately.

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#113

Post by generic_user »

"As I pulled over to ask if the gentleman was OK, I was immediately threatened with a ticket for blocking traffic. I re-parked my car legally and returned."

This person drove past the scene of a crime while Police Offices were in midst of arresting someone. He stopped his car was told to move. He then proceeded to park his car car and approach the suspect.

I'm sorry but if you pull your car over and interferer with a crime scene where the police are in the midst of an arrest you will be arrested and incapacitated to preserve the safety of the officers.

The 'Evil White Man' is sadly, predictable click bait to drive traffic. I'm sure this person would be in court if he had a case. But any lawyer is going to tell you if you interfere with police business you have no case.

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#114

Post by AnimalMuppet »

fake-name wrote: post #106
650REDHAIR wrote: post #24

At what point did you identify yourself as a doctor?

At what point does not immediately notifying people that you're a doctor remotely justify beating the shit out of you?

It doesn't justify the beating. But if a random guy walks into the middle of a police confrontation, that random guy is going to be presumed hostile until proven otherwise, with some fairly good reason. He just made the situation considerably less safe, even with the best of cops.

From there, the cops went completely out of control. But notifying them that he was a doctor might have prevented them from starting down that path.

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#115

Post by markdown »

trungonnews wrote: post #89
Meegul wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no difference in the end. The police caused you financial harm, with no restitution. They should be held liable for that under civil law.

Forgot to say that they also took away my driver license for a whole month. I wish I knew how I can get the tow fee reimbursed.

In my country we have a Small Claims Court for situations like this (under USD$2500), where you get to go before a judge and plead your case.

There are no lawyers involved and it costs nothing if you handle the entire case yourself or a small amount of money (that you can add to your claim) if you want to pay a bailiff to serve the papers to the defendant for you.

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#116

Post by [deleted] »

gozur88 wrote: post #49
lingben wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem as I see it is that while 99% of police officers are not only law abiding and do their job with integrity, the 1% out there can and do destroy innocent lives. It is like walking into a mine field. You could very well walk out unscathed but one 'routine' brush with the wrong police officer and your life may never recover. So are you willing to take such a small but catastrophic chance? An intelligent perso…

Yes, but the point is the risk is so small you're off into lightning strike territory. Do you worry about brain eating amoebas when you swim? Do you refuse to fly because the plane might crash?

[deleted]

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#117

Post by generic_user »

morgante wrote: post #65
WalterBright wrote: post #52

Consider it from the cops' point of view. A random person shows up and wants to "check the health" of their suspect. When asked for id, he wants to debate "why". Does he seriously think they'll let some unknown person who refuses to provide id interfere with their arrest? Would any cop in any country allow this? What he should have done is opened with "I am a licensed physician, here's my license and id. May I check…

How is that at all relevant? He could have shown up and started cussing at them and they wouldn't have justification to beat him up and arrest him. Cops are supposed to serve us, not the other way around. We shouldn't have to be afraid of them or treat them like volatile, emotional dictators (though that's exactly what they are).

A crime scene and an arrest in progress are not an informal gathering of a bunch of people you can happily join in.

By interfering for any reason with a crime scene in progress you are putting the Officers lives in jeopardy and possibly your own if you you make the wrong choices. They are fully sanctioned under the Law to take your life if they feel threatened in the line of duty. Even something as simple as putting your hand in you pocket could be a life threatening situation and you could be shot.

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#118

Post by morgante »

generic_user wrote: post #117
morgante wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that at all relevant? He could have shown up and started cussing at them and they wouldn't have justification to beat him up and arrest him. Cops are supposed to serve us, not the other way around. We shouldn't have to be afraid of them or treat them like volatile, emotional dictators (though that's exactly what they are).

A crime scene and an arrest in progress are not an informal gathering of a bunch of people you can happily join in. By interfering for any reason with a crime scene in progress you are putting the Officers lives in jeopardy and possibly your own if you you make the wrong choices. They are fully sanctioned under the Law to take your life if they feel threatened in the line of duty. Even something as simple as putting…

This attitude is abhorrent. Asking questions is not justification for a cop to do anything to you, even at a "crime scene."

Cops are not dictators allowed to commit murder because they "feel threatened." They are supposed to be trained professionals who asses actual risks.

Cops are not judge and jury, or at least they're not supposed to be.

> They are fully sanctioned under the Law to take your life if they feel threatened in the line of duty.

That's a terrible attitude and is not the law, though unfortunately law enforcement protects its own and will never prosecute police.

I have a right to self-defense. Does that mean I have the right to shoot police when I feel threatened by them driving behind me as I go on my morning walk?

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#119

Post by mlvljr »

generic_user wrote: post #104
rayiner wrote: post #19

This shit has been happening to poor black and Hispanic people for a long time. In a sick way, it's a good thing that it's happening to doctors now. It's easy for comfortable suburbanites to vote pro-police, but now that the cancer has spread and police are brazenly abusing everyone else, it won't be so easy to ignore. We need a system of collective punishment for such conduct. "Good" police officers should fear losi…

Poor Black and Hispanic people have been driving past crime scenes parking there cars and trying to interfere with Police in the midst of an arrest? I seriously doubt that. But I have no doubt that anyone of any color that pulls over at a crime scene and tries to approach the suspect is going to be arrested. More then likely you will also be incapacitated in some way. That is what they are trained to do and rightly s…

Dude has a point

Re: To the 4 white male policemen who beat me for checking the health of [detainee]

#120

Post by gozur88 »

dleslie wrote: post #71
gozur88 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, you've allowed yourself to fall prey to US election year propaganda. If you look at the numbers you're very safe travelling in the US, and to the extent you're in danger it's from criminals and not police.

My position is in-line with the advice of lawyers[0][1][2][...] and police[3]. And as a foreigner I have virtually no rights while on American soil. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UezKO4TnaHs 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKe-NC30obg 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y_l3sa-iJQ

>And as a foreigner I have virtually no rights while on American soil.

That's simply false. In criminal matters you have exactly the same rights as a US citizen, even if you're in the country illegally. Though it is true you don't want to say anything to cops if they've taken some kind of official notice of you, that's not the same thing as asking for directions or reporting a crime.

You will get the same advice about answering questions in Canada, by the way, and for the same reason:

>Never voluntarily subject yourself to a police interrogation where it is apparent you are a suspect or accused. If you are approached as a witness you can ask the police, on videotape, to confirm that you are being questioned only as a witness and that you are not in legal jeopardy. After an arrest, there is an enormous power imbalance. The police -- hopeful of obtaining a confession, or damaging admission -- will take advantage of your vulnerability, at least to the limits of the law. Your best choice is always to consult a lawyer and you have a right to free consultation with duty counsel.

http://www.cbc.ca/thenational/blog/2012/06/what-to-do-when-t...

The reason people hammer home the idea you shouldn't talk to cops in the US is (like Canada) remaining silent isn't prejudicial during a trial. You have nothing to gain and can only hurt yourself.

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