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Pardon Snowden

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#651

To pardon Snowden seems like a very popular opinion around here. Can anyone help me change my opinion on this matter? The way I currently see it: - Snowden indiscriminately hovered up so many documents, it was impossible to vet all of them. - The vast majority of these documents do not constitute whistleblowing, but are standard operating procedure for the NSA. The US expects the NSA to do this. - Leaking standard-op…

Most of you points are simply blatantly false tho.

>- Snowden indiscriminately hovered up so many documents, it was impossible to vet all of them.

That's why he gave them to a small group of well respected journalists, so they could use their professional discretion to vet them.

>- Snowden indiscriminately hovered up so many documents, it was impossible to vet all of them.

I highly doubt that, but even if it that were true those documents aren't the ones being leaked by the journalists, only the ones showing the NSA doing illegal things are.

>- Snowden did not attempt to go through internal channels.

Yes he did.

>- Snowden leaked / whistleblowed these documents in an operation using his secret agent skills.

Lol wut. He was just a contractor, not a secret agent. He just copied files, fled to China and shared them with a small group of people, none of which required "secret agent skills"

>- Snowden fled to Russia, a currently not-so-cold competitor of the US.

So? You can't blame Snowden for that, blame the Justice department. If Snowden could have been even remotely safe anywhere but Russia, he wouldn't be there now. You can't chase after somebody then blame them for hiding somewhere safe.

>- Snowden gave the document cache to incompetent journalists. Greenwald send his boyfriend to smuggle documents through British customs.

No he didn't, he gave them to perfectly competent journalists. Greenwald is very competent and well respected as a journalists. Doesn't matter how he got the documents in Britain the important thing is that he did without them getting leaked earlier than he wanted.

>If Snowden had given only the slides on the NSA spying on American citizens, and cooperating with US companies, that would have been whistleblowing.

He tried that and nobody took him seriously.

>As it stands, to me, it feels like a Russian operation to inflict PR/diplomacy damage on the US.

Considering he only ever entered Russia after he had distributed the documents and none of them ever entered Russia this opinion is based on nothing other than emotion and isn't substantiated by any facts.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#652
post #8

If it doesn't happen now, what 's the probability that Hilary/Donald would grant pardon?

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/52r6im/bernie_sanders... "Bernie Sanders, Daniel Ellsberg, former members of the NSA and more weigh in: 'Edward Snowden did this country a great service. Let him come home'"

For those who have downvoted me!

Re: Pardon Snowden

#653

John Schindler's reporting works as a kind of explainer on why Obama/Clinton/Trump are v. unlikely to pardon him: https://20committee.com/2014/05/31/the-xx-committee-snowden-...

What a nut! That's certainly a kind of explainer on why it was better when the nation was run by the people's elected representatives rather than unaccountable unhinged spooks.

He's a nut because...?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#655

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

I had a similar thought, but it was more just normal internet guardedness: I don't know who these people are that are asking for my PII.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This chilling effect has a counterpart which would be directly amplified by pardoning Snowden. In short, if Snowden gets pardoned, it will encourage further people to leak confidential documents and violate the Espionage act since they will be emboldened by the thought they might get pardoned down the road.

If people are emboldened to blow the whistle on outrageous, secret, unconstitutional, anti-democratic activities of the US or state governments, then this is the best possible outcome.

Yes but you're being a bit naïve here. Things never really go like this.

Snowden didn't just blow the whistle on some shady activities, he dumped hundreds of confidential documents that put at risk the lives of hundreds of operatives working for your freedom and others'.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#657
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country would you suggest is the most free today? Not trolling, just wondering if I was going to move somewhere else, where would I go?

If you want freedom from government interference in your life, Somalia is still a pretty good bet. And no, I am not being facetious. People like to think of freedom as a scalar, but it's actually a vector with complex interactions among its various dimensions, one of which is the government. That said, I am absolutely signing the petition. Ed Snowden put a lot more on the line by blowing the whistle than I am by sign…

The question is not "most free from government", but "most free". It's like answering the question about which restaurant is most sanitary by suggesting to eat nothing at all - of course, you'll starve to death but at least no chance for food poisoning!

And you're wrong about Somalia btw: they do have a government, which collects taxes, introduces regulations and does all good government supposed to do, including corruption. [1][2][3]

> Ed Snowden put a lot more on the line by blowing the whistle than I am by signing.

Well, yeah, by signing you are putting absolutely nothing on the line so that's true :)

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5176102.stm

[2] http://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2011/jan/17383/somalia_s_govern...

[3] http://goobjoog.com/english/?p=20975

Re: Pardon Snowden

#658
They should add a simple 'Approve' or 'Like' button on the page.

On the website, I clicked on the 'TAKE ACTION' button and for about half a second I actually considered writing a "letter to the president"... but then I came to my senses and realized that I don't actually know ANY of these people.

I approve of the idea of Snowden and the idea of Obama pardoning him but this is all very abstract in my mind... Feels like writing a letter to Santa Claus.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#659
I'm not sure he deserves a pardon. Yes he did some good blowing the whistle on survalence but he crossed the line releasing everything else.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I also agree Manning deserves a pardon, to be fair, he was significantly more careless than Snowden. Basically all the arguments (lies) they use to damn Snowden can be fairly applied to Manning.

Manning is a woman. She uses the pronoun "she".

Your downvote was not deserved. This is a complicated, new and so far un-absorbed issue. We all struggle a bit with it, in different ways and with different parts of it.
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