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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#491

Post by tptacek »

nabla9 wrote: post #440
tptacek wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those people were put in jail for the rest of their lives. Binney, Wiebe, Loomis, and Roark were never arrested, let alone charged, let alone "with crimes that could put them into jail for the rest of their lives". Drake was charged --- he was believed to be the source for the NYT's blockbuster story on NSA surveillance --- but those charges were dropped.

>None of those people were put in jail for the rest of their lives. Prosecutors tried hard to build a case to put them into into prison. They received punitive treatment and bullying, their houses were raided. They raided Drake's house after he anonymously contacted DoD IG. Someone leaked this confidential information to DoJ. He faced 35 years of imprisonment. The judge in the case had some harsh words against govern…

That's not what you said. We could further litigate your revised summary of what happens to NSA whistleblowers, and I'd be happy to do so, but first I'd like to know that we're not just playing Calvinball.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#492

Post by colemickens »

lettergram wrote: post #328
vcarl wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gary Johnson wants to get rid of the Department of Education[0] and is against mandatory vaccinations[1]. [0]: https://www.johnsonweld.com/education [1]: https://twitter.com/govgaryjohnson/status/113419678730301440

I'm not going to get into a flame war, but pretty much everything related to libertarians are freedom of choice. I strongly agree that mandatory vaccinations on a national level should not be required. As long as it does not harm me, I don't think I should disallow someone to do it. That is to say, I don't think I should, or society should pressure our beliefs on others. I would vaccinate my own children because it m…

>As long as it does not harm me, I don't think I should disallow someone to do it.

Oh, so you don't understand the most fundamental bits of science at play in the vaccination debate. Why am I not surprised. I recommend you Google "vaccines herd immunity".

Children have already fallen gravely ill in some places in CA because of the stupidity enabled by this "libertarian" mindset.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#493

Post by FraggleKing »

I'm not sure on this but isn't the election within November? The count down showcased on the site is counting from 127days. Putting the end date at January 19, 2017. I'm wondering what Obama can/could do post election? I'm not from the US for please for give any ignorance.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#495

Post by colemickens »

tanderson92 wrote: post #276
fetbaffe wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, maybe not a spy, but an agent. https://20committee.com/2016/06/11/edward-snowden-is-a-russi... "The proper espionage term for Edward Snowden is defector, meaning an employee of an intelligence service who takes up residence in another country whose spies are not friends. Since 1917, every single Western intelligence defector to Moscow has cooperated with the Kremlin, on grounds of quid pro quo. There is no know…

> Trumps daughter pals with Putin's girlfriend. Just saying. Clinton's daughter pals with Trump's daughter (and pledges to still do so after the election). Does that make Clinton an irredeemable "deplorable"? edit: added context

Is Chelsea Clinton a white nationalist/supremist and I missed the memo?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#496

Post by dleslie »

hota_mazi wrote: post #474
peterkelly wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

This chilling effect has a counterpart which would be directly amplified by pardoning Snowden. In short, if Snowden gets pardoned, it will encourage further people to leak confidential documents and violate the Espionage act since they will be emboldened by the thought they might get pardoned down the road.

Sounds like a positive outcome, to me.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#497

Post by rev_bird »

draugadrotten wrote: post #205
captainmuon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I "love" how China actually tried to formalize this some time ago. Every citizen would get a citizen score, like our credit ratings, but grading how politically loyal they were. There was quite a bit of outrage on the western internet about this. The "funny" thing is, our governments are probably doing very similar things (though still to a lesser degree, and secretly). A big difference is that China often doesn't ha…

> A big difference is that China often doesn't have a sense of tact when it comes to not sounding dystopian, and happiliy uses phrases like "citizen score", "criminal elements" and "reeducation". Clintons "basket of deplorables" is a reminder that this sense of tact could change after the election.

It bothers me that one tactless moment from Clinton seems to get more attention than a lifetime of tactlessness from Trump. The guy openly insults anybody who doesn't unconditionally support him, but Clinton has one quotable moment of frustration and it's all of the sudden the evidence we need that politics isn't polite anymore?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#498

Post by colemickens »

kpwagner wrote: post #357
jokoon wrote: post #267

I'm still genuinely curious about what the intelligence community thinks of him, if it's bad, what are the arguments against him. I've heard Mike Baker on the Joe Rogan experience say that he did not trust Snowden one bit. In the intelligence world, it's common to be very cautions about leaks since foreign actors like Russia can really benefit politically from such scandal. It can be difficult to really know all the…

My conservative friends, not in the intelligence community, really don't like him. They try to be civil, but I can almost hear them hiss when I mention "Snowden". It's odd to me. They don't mind digital surveillance at all. They think it's good if it makes everyone safer. Throwing in my two cents, what interests me on the Snowden topic, is his character. While I'm glad Snowden took the initiative and risk, I don't be…

I really wish I could understand the people that are:

1. "patriotic" but don't respect those who stand up for ideals in the Constitution

2. "anti-government" or "anti-authority" but don't respect those who stand up to challenge the blind power grabs by the government and say things like "fix it from within" (when they would never, ever say the same thing about the IRS, for example)

3. "libertarian" but again, don't actually seem to care about liberties other than the Second Amendmend and finding ways to defund public services so they can pay less taxes.

Just seems like a lot of cognitive dissonance at play among the libertarians who don't support Snowden.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#499

Post by woah »

peterkelly wrote: post #347
captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

Hold on... How is this a chilling effect from mass surveillance? Signing a petition is an act of public announcement that you support something.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#500

Post by nabla9 »

tptacek wrote: post #491
nabla9 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>None of those people were put in jail for the rest of their lives. Prosecutors tried hard to build a case to put them into into prison. They received punitive treatment and bullying, their houses were raided. They raided Drake's house after he anonymously contacted DoD IG. Someone leaked this confidential information to DoJ. He faced 35 years of imprisonment. The judge in the case had some harsh words against govern…

That's not what you said. We could further litigate your revised summary of what happens to NSA whistleblowers, and I'd be happy to do so, but first I'd like to know that we're not just playing Calvinball.

I think you were right and I was wrong using the term arrest.
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