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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#501

Post by st3v3r »

dbcurtis wrote: post #337
st3v3r wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely missed the point. Further, this "holding a gun to your head" thing is completely asinine.

Is it really? What happens if you don't pay your taxes? Eventually you will be arrested. What if you resist arrest? Do the police ask you to come along nicely with an Especially Firm Voice the second time? Eventually, someone will deploy state-sanctioned violence in this situation. Stop whistling past the grave yard. That is how government works. They have guns, and prefer that you don't, just in case you get all arg…

"What happens if you don't pay your taxes?"

What happens if you go up and steal someone's car?

The same thing that happens if you break any other law.

"What if you resist arrest?"

The same thing that happens if you break any other law.

"Eventually, someone will deploy state-sanctioned violence in this situation."

And you get no sympathy from me, because in this case, you clearly broke the law.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#502

Post by st3v3r »

morgante wrote: post #316
st3v3r wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Should I now be punished for that decision?" You're not being punished, in any sense of the word.

Of course I am. I had to pay an initial cost (avoiding loans) and then am further being forced to pay for other people's decisions through taxes.

No, you are not. Not in any sense of the word.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#503

Post by thatcat »

friendlygrammar wrote: post #414
thatcat wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that Norway is ranked first on the democracy index, yet most Americans view it's policies as 'socialist'.

The democracy index is bs and most Americans don't even know what the word socialist means. So what is your point because you just stated two completely unrelated facts to what is currently being discussed.

My point was that some core values of democracy (equality and justice) are incorrectly perceived as 'socialist' in current American linguistic usage. If this were corrected, it is much more likely that American's would support a more democratic, Norwegian governance model.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#506

Post by x0x0 »

btilly wrote: post #370
x0x0 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have also been massive cuts in state aid. Frankly, having the federal government instead of state governments pay for college seems better -- the fed always captures benefits (increased tax money) while if you leave the state you grew up in, the state takes a bath on you.

I disbelieve. The cuts in state aid were mostly due to the 2008 financial crisis. However over decades, tuition has been rising significantly faster than inflation, while state aid has mostly kept up with inflation. Furthermore rising tuition is not just a phenomena of state schools. Private universities have seen tuition skyrocket over the decades by similar percentages as public schools, and they never received sta…

No, aid cuts where not due to 2008. eg in WI, which I'm familiar with, they started in approx 2001 and were cut by 50% over that decade. Eg in 2000, students paid about 30% of the cost and by 2010 60%.

https://badgerherald.com/news/2010/04/07/as-state-funding-fa...

and the cuts have continued, eg a further $250m in 2016

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/...

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#507

Post by marris »

vkou wrote: post #246
marris wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the politics of Kant and Plato?

What are the politics of Karl Marx? Plato's views on government, and condemnation of democracy are quite clearly laid out in the Republic. Kant writings have plenty to say about freedom vis-a-vis government, state power, rights of property, revolutions, warfare. None of these great minds existed in an apolitical, unbiased vacuum, where they could devote themselves to nothing but free thought. When it comes to educati…

> None of these great minds existed in an apolitical, unbiased vacuum, where they could devote themselves to nothing but free thought.

If that is the claim, then I agree that it is wrong. The most common criticism of Marx that I have heard is not that he is political, but that he is wrong (and perhaps incoherent). Similarly, I think that any curriculum that wants to replace the highly influential writings of Plato with another philosopher should make a case for why we should do this... an argument beyond the "inclusion" of additional points of view. I can sit at my desk and come up with a dozen different points of view. I don't think that each of those should be included in a philosophy class, in place of Plato.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#508

Post by WalterBright »

dpark wrote: post #496
WalterBright wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fed pays 0.5% on reserves that banks hold. The Fed does require a certain reserve percentage that the bank cannot loan out. It's only fair that they pay some interest on that. However, making 0.5% is losing money because of inflation. Furthermore, no bank is going to loan you money for 0.5% - they're going to charge you a lot more. > Banks absolutely do not have to loan out every dollar deposited to make money.…

Fairness is an irrelevant point of discussion here. The Fed doesn't pay reserve interest because it's fair. They pay the interest that they expect will drive desired market behavior. If fairness were the goal, they'd pay zero interest for the excess reserves that they don't require. Inflation is also irrelevant. What matters is the spread between what they pay a depositor in interest and what the Fed will pay for hol…

Any organization relying on a 0.5% return on investment is going to go bankrupt due to inflation, taxes, and expenses. Hoarding money is not a viable business plan.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#509

Post by WalterBright »

dpark wrote: post #498
nstj wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> So if you're wealthy and that dollar goes to pay off the loan - where does it go? >It gets wiped off the books and a dollar leaves the economy. The case in point was for a 'wealthy person' (not my term, I don't like it but let's roll with it) who holds the debt of a student borrower. The hypothesis of an above poster was that money repaid on loan service (from the borrower student to the rentier) would not result…

> The case in point was for a 'wealthy person' (not my term, I don't like it but let's roll with it) who holds the debt of a student borrower. This is not a real scenario. Virtually no one's education is funded by direct loans from wealthy individuals. Student loans are issued by banks. When you pay a dollar on your student loans' principal, that dollar ceases to exist. The bank might turn around and make another loa…

> Student loans are issued by banks.

Which comes from depositors supposedly "hoarding" money in banks. (In fact, banks loan out a >1 multiple of deposits, called fractional reserve banking. So "hoarding" money in banks results in more money being spent, not less!)

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#510

Post by dpark »

WalterBright wrote: post #508
dpark wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairness is an irrelevant point of discussion here. The Fed doesn't pay reserve interest because it's fair. They pay the interest that they expect will drive desired market behavior. If fairness were the goal, they'd pay zero interest for the excess reserves that they don't require. Inflation is also irrelevant. What matters is the spread between what they pay a depositor in interest and what the Fed will pay for hol…

Any organization relying on a 0.5% return on investment is going to go bankrupt due to inflation, taxes, and expenses. Hoarding money is not a viable business plan.

I'm not sure what the disconnect is here. It's not Chase's money sitting in reserve drawing 0.5% interest. It's your money. Chase makes money for free by just holding your money. There are certainly expenses associated with running a bank. Those expenses don't significantly increase for Chase if you deposit an extra $100K in your savings account, but Chase will make an extra $4K just for holding it.

I'm not sure if you're under the impression that I'm claiming that holding reserves is the primary way banks make money. I'm not. The discussion about reserves is to answer the claim that a dollar deposited with Chase will automatically result in a 90 cent loan to someone else. It will not.

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