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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#471

Post by lisper »

hutzlibu wrote: post #452
lisper wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want freedom from government interference in your life, Somalia is still a pretty good bet. And no, I am not being facetious. People like to think of freedom as a scalar, but it's actually a vector with complex interactions among its various dimensions, one of which is the government. That said, I am absolutely signing the petition. Ed Snowden put a lot more on the line by blowing the whistle than I am by sign…

Erm no. In Somalia you do have a lot of government interference - you just have many smaller (wannebe) ones there, fighting against each other for power, vs. one big.

But "one big" vs "wannabe" is the defining characteristic of a government. The reason that Somalia is universally considered a failed state is precisely because it has many smaller wannabe governments fighting each other rather than one big government maintaining order.

And that is precisely my point: people think of freedom as a scalar, as the absence of constraints on their personal decision-making. But this is wrong. Your decisions are always constrained, if not by "government" (however you choose to define it) then by your fellow humans. And if not by your fellow humans (e.g. if you go live in the middle of Nunavut) then by the laws of physics.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#472

Post by anexprogrammer »

lettergram wrote: post #328
vcarl wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gary Johnson wants to get rid of the Department of Education[0] and is against mandatory vaccinations[1]. [0]: https://www.johnsonweld.com/education [1]: https://twitter.com/govgaryjohnson/status/113419678730301440

I'm not going to get into a flame war, but pretty much everything related to libertarians are freedom of choice. I strongly agree that mandatory vaccinations on a national level should not be required. As long as it does not harm me, I don't think I should disallow someone to do it. That is to say, I don't think I should, or society should pressure our beliefs on others. I would vaccinate my own children because it m…

Suggest you find out about the herd effect[1] as far as vaccines is concerned. Not having full vaccination does harm you.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Re: Pardon Snowden

#473

Post by icecold12741 »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #330

Looking forward to donating when they accept bitcoin. I have no expectation he'll be pardoned, but the other important thing here is that there's a documented movement for it. History will show that people wanted this and Obama and Hillary/Trump refused it. It will be more difficult for blind patriotic bias to weasel its way into the history books.

History is written by the victor. There was a large number of people who did not want the US to secede from Britain (including John Adams) but the history books (as given to the normal population) show us a proud group of united patriots who struck out against their oppressors...

More recently, the "greatest generation" signed up for WWII in droves, right? Actually over 50% were drafted with another estimated 100,000 Americans injuring themselves or fleeing the country to avoid the draft...

Re: Pardon Snowden

#474

Post by hota_mazi »

peterkelly wrote: post #347
captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

This chilling effect has a counterpart which would be directly amplified by pardoning Snowden.

In short, if Snowden gets pardoned, it will encourage further people to leak confidential documents and violate the Espionage act since they will be emboldened by the thought they might get pardoned down the road.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#475

Post by kyledrake »

floatrock wrote: post #460
bisRepetita wrote: post #270

Who are these guys? Registrar is in Panama. The site says "partnership with ACLU and Amnesty International", but I cannot find any links from those sites to pardonsnowden.org Both ACLU and AI have their own petition forms with different letters. https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved/take-action/edward-s... https://action.aclu.org/secure/grant_snowden_immunity Wondering if ACLU and AI are a little late to confirm, o…

Spot on. The top comment in this thread is paranoia about whether this site is a hostile name collection honeypot (I think if it is, so is commenting on this thread, hello nsa). One way of combatting such paranoia is to establish trust. This site accepts donations, but nowhere does it say WHO is running it. It has neat ACLU, Amnesty International, and HRW logos at the bottom, but anyone can put graphics on a page. It…

I just asked a few people on the "supporters" list who said they had "nothing to do with it", after trying to figure out more about it's core and see if I could get added to the list myself (my opinions on the NSA dragnet crap are well documented, I do not live in fear of them: http://blog.neocities.org/making-the-web-fun-again.html).

I'm starting to think they just got a list of people they believed might support this petition drive, and then added them to the site as "supporters".

Saying they are "supporters" of this drive is misleading. They should change the copy to say "these are some people that also support pardoning Ed Snowden".

At this point I would be extremely hesitant to donate money to this group until its foundational structure gets clarified.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#476

Post by sbov »

mangeletti wrote: post #421
akgerber wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If capitalism isn't authoritarian, that means people can opt out of state application of property rights to land, right? Without going to jail or getting shot, right?

Did you mean to reply to a different comment? I didn't make any claims about capitalism or even mention it.

The point is you can apply your statement to any form of government. The word has become meaningless.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#477

Post by unusximmortalis »

captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

The fact that you, the US citizen, asks this questions and has these worries says everything about what US has become, unfortunately.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#478

Post by alexbeloi »

2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #38

Whatever your opinion on the actual Snowden case - I think pardoning someone is seen to active condone whistle-blowing within the miltary / intelligence community, which I can't see the Government wanting to do.

Technically, whistle-blowers are already supposed to be protected by the law, though in practice they are often not.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#479

Post by aidenn0 »

jondoe wrote: post #22

Sorry Snowden but I don't support anything what "George Soros" support, i read you book,interview [...] but you are on wrong side of barricade https://www.google.co.uk/#q=gorge+soros "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. Learn more" http://commieblaster.com/george-soros-fund/ http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/how-george-soros-si... http://www.infowars.com/soros-admits-respons…

I'm told that George Soros is supportive of breathing air, and in fact breathes air every day. What's your opinion on that topic?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#480

Post by dev1n »

hota_mazi wrote: post #474
peterkelly wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

This chilling effect has a counterpart which would be directly amplified by pardoning Snowden. In short, if Snowden gets pardoned, it will encourage further people to leak confidential documents and violate the Espionage act since they will be emboldened by the thought they might get pardoned down the road.

This is not true. Snowden had to fly to Russia and live there for three years before a hypothetical pardon. If that is the minimum for the possibility of a pardon, I don't think many people would find that emboldening.
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