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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#401

Post by ygjb »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #381
peterkelly wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the so-called "chilling effect" that's one of the most worrying implications of mass surveillance on a society... people feel afraid to speak out due to a concern they may be added to a list of some sort, and face negative real-life repercussions due to expressing their free speech. There were a couple of times where I actually called the public contact numbers for NSA & GCHQ regarding particular stories abou…

It's not so much about mass surveillance but rather things like the TSA and stupid immigration policies which are at play here. Really, spotting your name on a petition isn't mass surveillance. It's not even a breach of privacy in any sense, because that's exactly what petitions are for.

> Really, spotting your name on a petition isn't mass surveillance.

No. The goal of a petition is to show support for a course of action, and in this context, exercising freedom of speech in a democracy.

Taking the list of people who signed a petition, assigning a "risk score" to them because of their activism, storing it in a database for the future, and using that as a means to make decisions that affect those individuals freedoms is exactly the purpose of mass surveillance. In isolation, for one petition or one activity, it is a sensible thing. As a general practice it promotes the notion of thought-crime or pre-crime in which an individuals freedoms are curtailed because the individuals exercise of their freedoms is unpalatable to either the elected officials, or the entrenched bureaucracy.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#402

Post by [deleted] »

clarkmoody wrote: post #344
captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

> A mode of thought I would expect in socialist countries, not the US... The United States government has done an excellent bit of propaganda to convince the bulk of the public that they are the most free people on earth. We salute the flag and sing the national anthem at games. We have the presidents' pictures on the walls of our classrooms. We chant "USA" at political rallies. But the government of the United State…

[deleted]

Re: Pardon Snowden

#403

Post by frandroid »

hacknat wrote: post #385

I don't agree with Snowden's actions completely, but, on the whole, he acted in good faith. I think the mass dump was a little ill advised, and he maybe could have thrown his lot in with slightly more responsible journalists who could have arbitrated what would be useful for the public to know a little more judiciously (I like Greenwald, but he can be unreasonable sometimes). However, on the whole I think it was for…

He didn't mass-dump like Wikileaks does though; Greenwald has been dripping out the vetted content over time..

Re: Pardon Snowden

#404

Post by mangeletti »

yodsanklai wrote: post #398
mangeletti wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If socialism isn't authoritarian, that means that people can opt out of social benefits, own their own property and things, and not have to pay taxes to cover others' social benefits, right? Without going to jail, right? If not, then I guess we're talking about some form of authoritarianism. To talk about "socialism" in a sense that doesn't break the non-aggression principle (necessary for non-authoritarianism), you…

> If socialism isn't authoritarian, that means that people can opt out of social benefits and not have to pay taxes to cover them, right? Without going to jail, right? The same argument goes for the US. All developed countries have taxes and most people agree that they are necessary. I Besides, I don't feel Sweden is more authoritarian than the US because it has higher tax rates or more public services.

Who said anything about the United States not being authoritarian?

This is the problem with these uninformed, emotionally-driven debates about ideologies; everybody thinks it's "me vs you", rather than trying to understand anything in depth.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#405

Post by lisper »

captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

> what would the risk be for me to sign this?

You could end up in prison. It's not likely, but it's possible. Signing this petition could get your name on a secret list of people who are likely terrorist sympathizers, and that in turn could lead to your arrest on trumped-up charges, or perhaps even non-trumped-up charges based on coincidental circumstances that would never have been noticed had you not signed. There are also a whole host of other less serious possible consequences. You could end up on the no-fly list. You could be denied a government job. Who knows?

And that is exactly why you must sign. Ed Snowden put a lot on the line so that we can know for sure that we are facing risks like this, and possibly even do something about it. The least we can do IMHO is to take a small risk to help him come home. That's why I signed (and made a modest donation).

Re: Pardon Snowden

#406

Post by hollander »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #272
hollander wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use Mailvelope! Or GPG/PGP. Use it to sign your mail. And do so using PGP/MIME, not text. PGP/Mime uses an attachment for the signature, and doesn't mess up the text with ugly code. Then put a small signature at the end of your mail explaining what PGP is, linking to Wikipedia, and link to your public key. As you use HTML, do this in a small font, 50% grey, and it won't get in the way. I do this since two yea…

I tried implementing PGP on Thunderbird about 5 years ago, it was difficult. I've set up a mail server, web servers, etc.. Setting up PGP was complicated. I'm surprised that message signing isn't built in yet, why isn't it? It didn't seem so hard to implement as a default.

Try again. Take the effort, and then try to promote it and help other people do the same.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#407

Post by jrochkind1 »

Chelsea Manning needs it more, and in my opinion is just as much deserving of a pardon. I wish Manning was getting more attention and pressure for a pardon.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#408

Post by riboflava »

captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

"They seem to have learned the habit of cowering before authority even when not actually threatened. How very nice for authority. I decided not to learn this particular lesson." -- Richard Stallman (http://www.donhopkins.com/drupal/node/109)

Re: Pardon Snowden

#409

Post by cswilly »

koolba wrote: post #251
bshimmin wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Trump is in favour of Snowden being executed, isn't he?

> I think Trump is in favour of Snowden being executed, isn't he? I'm not sure but I can imagine him saying that at some point. Still, I'd put him at non-zero because he doesn't have the same political baggage that Clinton would worry about.

You can put Trump at non-zero because of his very random behavior.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#410

Post by tomaskafka »

pc86 wrote: post #327
Benjammer wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The MTA's "See something, say something" campaign in NYC always kind of comes off sounding dystopian to me.

I'd much rather inefficient, racially biased policing come from the population than an ML algorithm in Ft. Meade.

You now have both.
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