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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#301

Post by colmvp »

imron wrote: post #37
allendoerfer wrote: post #20

I think the problem is, people do not care anymore. The scandal is over, business as usual. Only a small percentage of the population still cares about Snowden. I think the image of the NSA has been hurt and a change in legislation might get you some positive press in the future, but I do not think that pardoning Snowden would be worth the effort for a politician. On the other hand: Obama probably does not have to ca…

I think people are confusing your statement of the situation as endorsement of the situation. The reality is, I think you're right. Sadly, for the majority of people, this is not an issue they care about.

That's just the news cycle right?

Until another terrorist attack happens on a favored Western city, Westerners will be ambivalent about ISIL.

Until a newspaper prints another photo of a child dead in the sand, Westerners will be ambivalent about refugees.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#302

Post by yodsanklai »

paulintrognon wrote: post #64

I believe when you wrote "socialist" you meant "authoritarianist"? Please don't mix-up those two concepts

It's amusing or distressing to see that "socialist" has became such a bad word in the US. Basically, if you're for things such as public education or healthcare, you're also suspected of being some kind of Stalin supporter. Successful propaganda.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#303

Post by usgroup »

WilliamDhalgren wrote: post #188
usgroup wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One does not know what a whistleblowers intent is ahead of time. Further, we are talking about secret service stuff here rather than all whistleblowing. No whistleblowers in this area does not mean no oversight or no checks and balances. It's just that as an audit mechanism, it presents a lot of risk since it leaves what can ultimately effect national security to the discretion of the whistleblower.

It means an extremely opaque system of checks precisely in an area of the state that is particularly succeptable to abuse. That is a real risk to national security here. Contrary, I can see exactly zero potential for jeopardising national security by any mooderately sane law on whistleblower protection in this area. All whistleblowing is taking things into one's own hands at the risk of persecution, and here its only…

I think that's agreeable but you're just asking for legislation that results in a balanced outcome.

In this case there was clearly a public good. There was also a massive national security compromise in the US ability to conduct surveillance.

Which effects national security more in the long run strikes me as a difficult thing to speculate about. However in the short term I'd imagine every organisation of interest to the US in the world promptly switched keys, hardware, routine, whatever after the story broke...

Re: Pardon Snowden

#304

Post by [deleted] »

WilliamDhalgren wrote: post #188
usgroup wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One does not know what a whistleblowers intent is ahead of time. Further, we are talking about secret service stuff here rather than all whistleblowing. No whistleblowers in this area does not mean no oversight or no checks and balances. It's just that as an audit mechanism, it presents a lot of risk since it leaves what can ultimately effect national security to the discretion of the whistleblower.

It means an extremely opaque system of checks precisely in an area of the state that is particularly succeptable to abuse. That is a real risk to national security here. Contrary, I can see exactly zero potential for jeopardising national security by any mooderately sane law on whistleblower protection in this area. All whistleblowing is taking things into one's own hands at the risk of persecution, and here its only…

[deleted]

Re: Pardon Snowden

#305

Post by eternalban »

captainmuon wrote: post #117
JMCQ87 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're allowed your quota of one medium-impact dissident action per week, just like everyone else. As it helps to keep up maintaining the illusion of democracy and free speech, you are actually doing your country a great service. If you start to do more, however... Consider yourself warned. ^^ In this case, I can reassure you though: Online petition clicktivism has been shown to be very ineffective, so it's only cons…

I "love" how China actually tried to formalize this some time ago. Every citizen would get a citizen score, like our credit ratings, but grading how politically loyal they were. There was quite a bit of outrage on the western internet about this. The "funny" thing is, our governments are probably doing very similar things (though still to a lesser degree, and secretly). A big difference is that China often doesn't ha…

> China actually tried to formalize this some time ago [...] The "funny" thing is, our governments are probably doing very similar things (though still to a lesser degree, and secretly).

They may be doing it to an even higher degree (given they are far more sophisticated than CCP) but the key feature is that they do it like criminals that they are and in "secret".

The Chinese are stuck with the CCP and a techno-Scientific ruling elite unless they manage to have another rovolution. The generation that survived Mao is, imo, probably psychologically shorn of any will to express robust dissent given the state terrorism that they had to endure. The new generation is fed hyper-nationalism and has front row seat on the gloabally televised hypocrisy of American governing elite. (Isn't it so fine that in 21st century USA has become the enabler of autocrats the world over?)

We have a constitution that if ever resurrected would deal with all this. We need to focus on that.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#306

Post by balabaster »

captainmuon wrote: post #60

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

I don't think the paranoia is unreasonable, however, it is exactly this sort of self censorship that dictatorships bank on to stay in power. People don't speak out for fear of repercussions. Snowden sacrificed almost everything to do what was right by not only the people of the U.S. but what was right for the people of the world.

I think it's only right that we all put our neck out for him, the same as he did for us - if only to say thank you for having our backs. I'm signing it.

Edit: I have signed it

Re: Pardon Snowden

#307

Post by kaosmos »

I'd like to sign the petition. I generally try not to think too much about implications of free opinion actions, to avoid these worries stop me from voicing my opinions. In these case also I'm not an US citizen so it is somewhat easier to do. But looks like only US citizens are allowd to sign this. Do you think that the signature of a non US citizen worths something?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#308

Post by wes-k »

lettergram wrote: post #279
k_sze wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you know what's also awful? We expect neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump to pardon Snowden in the future. In this sense, Democrats and Republicans are not all that different. It's still all about the interest of the powerful.

The if Hilary claimed she would pardon Snowden I'd vote for her in a heartbeat. I hate her because to me she seems to want to expand the surveillance state. I hate Trump because with a surveillance state anyone who makes fun of his hands would/could be arrested... Hence, at the moment I'm voting Gary Johnson, who I actually think is the most qualified, but also made it clear he wants to downsize the NSA

And get rid of the EPA and the federal department of education right?

Libertarians are interesting. Them wanting a small gov always has something anyone would agree with.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#309

Post by tanderson92 »

fetbaffe wrote: post #298
tanderson92 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll note for others that you didn't actually answer the question. By the way, Clinton's campaign chairman also has connections to Russia through his consulting group.

I answered it by not answering like you did with Snowden being an Russian agent. Chelsea hanging with Ivanka is not on the same level as Ivanka hanging with Putin's girlfriend Wendi Deng Murdoch. Yes, Clinton has also ties to Russia, but not as close as Trump's and not a link to Putin like Paul Manafort. And Clinton having connections to Russia does not exclude Trump having it too. I just makes this election even wor…

Oh, yeah I I don't view some opinion on "20commitee.com" as authoritative. Opinions differ. The only actionable part is Klintsevich's quote, which is also speculation.

Not much to discuss there.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#310

Post by brewdad »

felice_landry wrote: post #126
captainmuon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I "love" how China actually tried to formalize this some time ago. Every citizen would get a citizen score, like our credit ratings, but grading how politically loyal they were. There was quite a bit of outrage on the western internet about this. The "funny" thing is, our governments are probably doing very similar things (though still to a lesser degree, and secretly). A big difference is that China often doesn't ha…

It's hilarious I think. It's sort of the same end result, but the means to get there are a bit different. Having a Citizen Score would send me into a fit of rage, but I probably have some kind of other score I don't know about. Or I'm on a List. Those Lists. Must take much money to maintain them.

No maintenance required really. Once a name goes on a list it never comes off. Weekly backups are probably a good idea though.
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