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Pardon Snowden

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181–190 of 814 posts

Re: Pardon Snowden

#181
post #166

Snowden will not get pardoned, because (1) exposing illegal domestic spying was only a part of what he leaked, and (2) he admits that he specifically took the job with the intent to get information about NSA hacking of foreign computers to release to journalists in those foreign countries. See this comment someone posted on Reddit for details with links to sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/52k179/ed…

I don't see where Snowden said that "he specifically took the job with the intent [...] to release to journalists in those foreign countries"

Re: Pardon Snowden

#182
post #166

Snowden will not get pardoned, because (1) exposing illegal domestic spying was only a part of what he leaked, and (2) he admits that he specifically took the job with the intent to get information about NSA hacking of foreign computers to release to journalists in those foreign countries. See this comment someone posted on Reddit for details with links to sources: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/52k179/ed…

He also made no effort to disclose or inform internally - it's pretty cut and dry. Even if the President personally wanted to, it's simply not a precedent any administration can afford to set.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#183
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're allowed your quota of one medium-impact dissident action per week, just like everyone else. As it helps to keep up maintaining the illusion of democracy and free speech, you are actually doing your country a great service. If you start to do more, however... Consider yourself warned. ^^ In this case, I can reassure you though: Online petition clicktivism has been shown to be very ineffective, so it's only cons…

I'm the CTO of a startup that's trying to solve this very problem. Online activism isn't very effective, so our thesis is that small groups of determined people can affect change when they meet in person around specific issues and legislation. To facilitate this concept, we've built basically a mashup between Twitter, Meetup.com, and an API feed of legislation. The goal is to find events going on in your area and you…

So what's the name of your outfit?

Re: Pardon Snowden

#184
post #148
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Turkey at this point in time looks like THE MOST dangerous place to be if you're not pro-government. The witch-hunt Erdogan set up is crazy. I used to travel twice a year to Istanbul. Now I don't see myself landing foot there for a very, very long time.

How about Notrh Korea, Russia, China, Syria, ... ?? The list is going on..

US...

Re: Pardon Snowden

#185
post #153
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. And even as a non-U.S. national I worry if it would land me in trouble if I wanted simply to visit the U.S. on holiday again.

For me it's basically pushed the US far down the list of places to go for leisure. I see the risks as still being very small, but why take the risk when there are so many other great places to visit too? US immigrations stands out for the least pleasant experiences I've had on entering a country, and that includes entering places like China, despite most of the time being perfectly fine (I used to fly in/out of SFO e…

"I see the risks as still being very small, but why take the risk"

Always reminds me of the line in casino "Look... why take a chance? At least, that's the way I feel about it."

Re: Pardon Snowden

#186

I believe when you wrote "socialist" you meant "authoritarianist"? Please don't mix-up those two concepts

In principle, yes you are right. However, there is only so much hedging and differentiation I can put into a post without turning it into an essay. What I wanted to say is "realsocialist" a la former Soviet Union or East Germany. I think part of the confusion is that I live in Germany, where socialist always means that kind of one-party authoritarian system. By this definition, e.g. Bernie Sanders would be a (left-wi…

In the UK, the Labour part is moving back (rejoining?) it's old Socialist roots. The flawed but gracious and honourable leader of the party at present has been a socialist his entire career, but could hardly be called authoritarian.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#187

Maybe a naive question, but what would the risk be for me to sign this? I wonder if I (a US citizen) might get trouble the next time at the border? Or get a higher score in some database, that combined with other things might get me into trouble? Increased scrutiny from the IRS (which should have nothing to do with this, but "they" might say hell why not?)? Inability to get security clearances in future? Being target…

According to a journalist who gave a talk here (Stuttgart, Germany) last week, there is a speed radar and license plate scanner at the local NSA installation, and going by too slow gets you on the 'suspicious people' list.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#188
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripping whistleblowers from their constitutional rights and condemning them to a lifetime in prison is arguably a worse national security risk. A society needs layers of checks and balances, and whistleblowing is one such layer. When whistleblowing is penalized so harshly you create an environment of unchecked power. Citizens can't do anything because even when they know they're being lied to, they need to know the…

One does not know what a whistleblowers intent is ahead of time. Further, we are talking about secret service stuff here rather than all whistleblowing. No whistleblowers in this area does not mean no oversight or no checks and balances. It's just that as an audit mechanism, it presents a lot of risk since it leaves what can ultimately effect national security to the discretion of the whistleblower.

It means an extremely opaque system of checks precisely in an area of the state that is particularly succeptable to abuse. That is a real risk to national security here.

Contrary, I can see exactly zero potential for jeopardising national security by any mooderately sane law on whistleblower protection in this area.

All whistleblowing is taking things into one's own hands at the risk of persecution, and here its only more so, given the seriousness of the charges one will face if one's defense on the basis of whistleblower protection ie arguing one acted in the public interest and revealed gross abuse of power fails.

Whatever is at the discretion for the potential leaker to decide, is at that discretion regardless of legal defense opportunities a leaker may have after the fact.

It is simply ludicrous that revealing rampant abuse of power by precisely those tasked with protection of the constitutional order, and precisely at the point where such control is most needed can be a punishable offense in any democracy.

But naturally any such leak needs to be able to stand up in court and satisfy some reasonable criteria of public interest and of having revealed serious violations - nobody is suggesting blatant espionage be legalized ffs.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#190
I think there also needs to be a 'Protect all whistle blowers' petition also. A petition to pardon Snowden is a noble goal (IMHO), but there are deep rooted issues which are not addressed by simply pardoning one individual. I wonder why there is no, 'Pardon Chelsea Manning' petition also? Could it be related to transgender issues?
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