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Pardon Snowden

pardonsnowden.org

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Re: Pardon Snowden

#91

Post by CalRobert »

pearjuice wrote: post #77
aikah wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snowden committed treason The only people that behaved in a treacherous fashion are the one that are spying on you because for them you're just a criminal by default. Furthermore he didn't commit treason, he didn't spy for a 3rd party country. He revealed to the world the scope of NSA spying and did everybody a big favor. There is nothing democratic with secret laws and spying. Today you cannot say you don't know a…

I completely understand what is going wrong and I assume you do too by your vivid explanation. Yet, you spend all your energy explaining it to people on the internet. What I don't get is, why don't you funnel that energy into making change? Everybody understands what is wrong about being permanently spied on, yet nobody does something. Whether Snowded committed treason cannot be stated in one sentence or even a parag…

"yet nobody does something."

I contribute to Mailvelope now and then. I encourage my friends to use encryption. I'm honestly not entirely sure what practical things people are supposed to do? This isn't something where you round up a bunch of volunteers to go do a beach cleanup.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#92

Post by zamalek »

k_sze wrote: post #78
allendoerfer wrote: post #20

I think the problem is, people do not care anymore. The scandal is over, business as usual. Only a small percentage of the population still cares about Snowden. I think the image of the NSA has been hurt and a change in legislation might get you some positive press in the future, but I do not think that pardoning Snowden would be worth the effort for a politician. On the other hand: Obama probably does not have to ca…

And you know what's also awful? We expect neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump to pardon Snowden in the future. In this sense, Democrats and Republicans are not all that different. It's still all about the interest of the powerful.

Trump would, in all likelihood, further attempts to hunt him down - given his stance on spying on Americans.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#93

Post by BjoernKW »

paulintrognon wrote: post #64

I believe when you wrote "socialist" you meant "authoritarianist"? Please don't mix-up those two concepts

In theory those are different. In practice though there hasn't been a single socialist country that hasn't at least devolved into authoritarianism or even has been so right from the start (Scandinavian Socialism and modern day German Social Market Economy could be considered exceptions but I doubt these can really be considered socialist.).

People keep saying: "This isn't true socialism." Well, then true socialism seems to be nothing but a pipe dream that in reality can't be implemented and hence should either be revised or replaced by a better concept.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#94

Post by ComodoHacker »

Doesn't pardoning assume convicting him first? Or does it mean there won't be open trial? I think an open and media covered trial will be more valuable to the public. Not sure about himself.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#95

Post by nitrogen »

Freak_NL wrote: post #33
wfunction wrote: post #18

The thing I hate about all petition sites is that they ask for my personal information for... what purpose exactly? They don't even seem to try to verify anything. They just look like scams to me, which is a shame because I really think they shouldn't be...

To prevent ballot stuffing I would assume. With a name and email address you might check the validity of a petition by randomly mailing some of the petition signers to validate that they did sign it themselves.

AIUI petition drives are sometimes used to build mailing lists and drive further actions by signers.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#96

Post by bertil »

BjoernKW wrote: post #93
paulintrognon wrote: post #64

I believe when you wrote "socialist" you meant "authoritarianist"? Please don't mix-up those two concepts

In theory those are different. In practice though there hasn't been a single socialist country that hasn't at least devolved into authoritarianism or even has been so right from the start (Scandinavian Socialism and modern day German Social Market Economy could be considered exceptions but I doubt these can really be considered socialist.). People keep saying: "This isn't true socialism." Well, then true socialism se…

Not sure it’s a fair argument to exclude dozens of the wealthiest countries in the world because they own definition of socialism —that they practice— does not meet your imagined one.

The definition is not complicated: have key industrial assets, notably transport infrastructure, owned by public authorities.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#97

Post by blowski »

raddad wrote: post #68
cesis wrote: post #59

Also don't forget about Manning who actually went to prison and is not getting any publicity now.

Just last night on the radio they were talking about Manning ending a hunger strike and getting some medical attention and having the surgery suggested by her psych doctor.

Yep, she was front page news on the BBC only this morning.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#98

Post by bertil »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #94

Doesn't pardoning assume convicting him first? Or does it mean there won't be open trial? I think an open and media covered trial will be more valuable to the public. Not sure about himself.

The assumption is that he has been convicted by a secret court (FISA).

Re: Pardon Snowden

#99

Post by tomschlick »

I think Snowden is a true patriot for revealing what our government was doing against us. That said, a full pardon isn't going to happen.

What they should be shooting for is a fair trial. One that isn't being prosecuted under the Espionage act which would allow his lawyers to use the "for the common good" defense. Under the espionage act it severely limits his affirmative defense options.

Re: Pardon Snowden

#100

Post by newman8r »

I am for a full pardon. The risks to our privacy are greater now than they have ever been and a lot of people think it will keep us safe. If I knew more about history I'd be tempted to compare it to something like a more insidious version of the cuban missile crisis, but it's probably a bad comparison. Any historians around here - what would you compare it to?
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