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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#451

Post by lawnchair_larry »

morgante wrote: post #201
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, for boomers in NA it was normal to be in their own house immediately after graduating. Not many lived with their parents after the 18-22 range. Not having a place by 23 would have you defending your reputation.

> Not many lived with their parents after the 18-22 range. There's this amazing thing called "renting." Not owning your home doesn't mean you live with your parents. The notion that you should be able to immediately buy a house at the beginning of your career is ridiculously entitled.

No one said "should", I'm just saying what people did. It was very common for young, working class couples to get a starter home, even with only 1 partner working.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#452

Post by Fomite »

zanny wrote: post #303
jonahrd wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right that it's a poor financial decision, but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not just STEM/other money makers) for the pure purpose of educational fulfillment. That can only be done with a system that helps pay for education instead of letting the market decide which degrees are most valuable in terms of pure capitalistic measures

You can do this right now. There are various social media groups, even local ones, about specific subjects and areas of study. You can get all the same textbooks any given college professor writes in the syllabus, you can watch recorded lectures on every chapter, and you can discuss the material with like minded knowledge seekers. The Internet era effectively invalidates structured schooling education for the vast ma…

Having encountered some of these people in my life, their education is often incomplete, and more dangerously, they're often unaware it's incomplete.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#453

Post by nstj »

dpark wrote: post #426
WalterBright wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another variation on the "rich people hoard money" theory. The reality is that rich people's lending, investment, and bonds all spend that money, too. Nobody borrows money unless they plan to spend it (otherwise it would make no sense). Nobody hoards cash.

That's not really true. If you're truly poor, you'll spend every dollar basically as soon as you get it. If you're moderately wealthy, an extra dollar you receive might pay off a dollar on a loan, or turn into an extra dollar in your savings account, both of which actually reduce the amount of money in circulation. This isn't "hoarding" but has a different effect on the economy than spending.

So if you're wealthy and that dollar goes to pay off the loan - where does it go? The person you're giving it to will either spend it on consumption, or loan it to someone else until (ultimately) it is spent. And if you deposit the dollar into the bank then the bank have to loan it to someone (they need to make money too!) who will then spend it on consumption. It won't reduce the amount of money in circulation[0].

Side note: "How the Economic Machine Works"[1] by Ray Dalio (manager of one of the world's largest hedge funds) is fantastic in describing these concepts in non-academic-economics terms.

[0]: https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/current/ [1]: http://www.economicprinciples.org/wp-content/uploads/ray_dal...

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#454

Post by duaneb »

refurb wrote: post #385
duaneb wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC just this week the US Census released a median household income of $56,000k. Even traditionally poor-performing demographics are well above $40,000/year at median .

The key word there is household . Most households are dual income. The $60K is an individuals salary. Combine that in a household are you're getting close to $100K.

Sure--just pointing out that the assumption the average income is $40k just isn't there.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#455

Post by JustUhThought »

The comments,,, so,,, ignorant. As if, all in one place, all the reasons I needed to stop reading social commentary in HN comments. The ignorance, the abundance of it, the diversity of it, Trump would be unable to stop himself from jizzing over the cornucopia of bigotry. Trump bigotry jizz, everywhere.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#456

Post by mjevans »

btilly wrote: post #370
x0x0 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have also been massive cuts in state aid. Frankly, having the federal government instead of state governments pay for college seems better -- the fed always captures benefits (increased tax money) while if you leave the state you grew up in, the state takes a bath on you.

I disbelieve. The cuts in state aid were mostly due to the 2008 financial crisis. However over decades, tuition has been rising significantly faster than inflation, while state aid has mostly kept up with inflation. Furthermore rising tuition is not just a phenomena of state schools. Private universities have seen tuition skyrocket over the decades by similar percentages as public schools, and they never received sta…

They did receive 'aid' in two forms:

* Student loans that cannot be discharged via bankruptcy.

* Student loans that are more accessible thanks to both government loans and lending policies that encourage banks and credit unions to furnish student loans.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#457

Post by mjevans »

refurb wrote: post #383
metaphorm wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? you've got a serious lack of perspective if that's what you think this is

That exactly what this is. Person A goes to school, takes out loans, diligently pays them back. Person B does the exact same thing, but gets his/her loans forgiven. How is that fair?

It isn't. Fair would be allowing them to discharge their loans via bankruptcy and forcing the institutions that took the loans to eat most of that.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#458

Post by mjevans »

morgante wrote: post #432
thowawy91316 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not alone. I graduated college a few years ago. My parents made too much to qualify for need-based aid, but too little to be able to actually afford it (living in the NYC sphere, you can earn decent money and still struggle). I too picked a lesser-tier school because it was more affordable. My parents paid for my food, and the occasional rent payment, but the rest was on me. So, I took out loans. I started col…

> My ideal solution would allow citizens to dispel student loans through public service. We actually already have public service loan forgiveness programs. I think they're great and would support expanding them to additional fields.

Maybe you should have to do that in order to clear the loans, but if you do I think it should still bite the institutions that overcharged the student just like actual bankruptcy should.

There needs to be negative pressure applied to the price of education.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#459

Post by Hydraulix989 »

jonahrd wrote: post #184
morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

You may be right that it's a poor financial decision, but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not just STEM/other money makers) for the pure purpose of educational fulfillment. That can only be done with a system that helps pay for education instead of letting the market decide which degrees are most valuable in terms of pure capitalistic measures

One of my favorite quotes from the movie Good Will Hunting:

"See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that ... you dropped 150 grand on a fuckin' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!"

It's not the actual learning itself that's expensive; it's the credentials.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#460

Post by zo1 »

dman wrote: post #63
Retric wrote: post #14

IMO, a large chunk of this would be resolved if federal loans where limited based on tuition not just need. If a school charges more than ~20k/year then students can't apply for federal loans and private loans become dischargeable. Note: Some schools still charage less than 10k/year. http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list... Instead, schools have a huge incentive to raise tuition endlessly and f…

Who sets those limits and how are they enforced over time? What if colleges find other ways to charge you money (accomodation, usage fees for equipment etc).

It'll be a never-ending cat and mouse game deciding those limits. I'd say artificially skewing the market is unsustainable and shouldn't be done.
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