Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam • Hacker News Board

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#101

Post by analog31 » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 3:44 AM UTC

donretag wrote: post #24

Does an espresso really need the crema? In Italy, espresso is simply called caffe. When you order coffee, you get an espresso. At home, many still use a caffettiera (sorry, do not know the word in English). A caffettiera will not produce any noticeable crema, but it is still an espresso. I never drink coffee (I am way too energetic as is), but in Italy I constantly drink it since it is cultural. In fact, I leave toni…

When you order coffee, you get an espresso.

My daughter was just in Italy, and granted, she probably didn't stray from the tourist areas. But she said that she had to ask for espresso, or they would assume: She's an American so she must want coffee.

With that said, she still raves about the espresso.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#102

Post by acchow » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 3:47 AM UTC

horshod wrote: post #56

205guy wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're equivocating. A random person knows his culture in a general way and is competent to make comparisons. The op was essentially saying his overall observation of espresso in the US does not overlap with his experience in Italy. Having lived in Europe myself, I also know this to be true. Further, that it happens in many food categories gives credence to the espresso observation: cheese, wine, bread, etc. It goes…

I am from India, living in the US and I have seen tons of Indian snobs saying the Indian food in the US is just not good enough. I just can't agree. I can imagine that the probability of finding good espresso may be much higher in Italy - maybe every corner cafe makes only the best coffee. But the idea that good espresso cannot be found anywhere in the US (or SFO), which is home to many Europeans, just seems a bit of…

Typically, coffee in Europe isn't the artisanal, single origin stuff one is probably used to on America's west coast. It's a different food. Especially in Italy, where they also traditionally mix in Robusta beans with the Arabica.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#103

Post by justinator » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 4:26 AM UTC

fatdog wrote: post #53

Hipster coffee and Italian coffee are very different. The former is characterized by "fruit" flavors, which a lot of people taste as just acidic, where Italian coffees are more base and tannic, owing (I think) to higher levels of the cheaper arabica bean in their blends. As someone whose drink is a "ristretto" (which is mostly the crema) the espresso in a given little italy vs. something served by someone under the a…

Ristretto is just a shot that's pulled a few seconds less than "normal", so all the coffee from the portafilter isn't extracted into your cup. If you tell any barista to pull you a short shot, they'll understand (same thing). When I was a barista, our normal espresso shots were always ristretto.

Our beans also came shipped from Italy. They had a use-by date that was months in the future.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#104

Post by bkkk » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 4:29 AM UTC

toyg wrote: post #92

bkkk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a while to figure this out. I also grew up with italian espresso and I always wondered why all these crafty, specialist roasters (all over the world) can't do a drinkable espresso and always end up with undrinkable acid in a cup. A lot of italian espresso blends are a mix Arrabica/Robusta. Robusta beans create the sought-after strong/bitterish italien espresso flavor and probably also reduce/mask/balance t…

A lot of quality Italian coffees are marketed as 100% arabica. This said, I've never worked behind the bar and the Italian food industry is very crafty, so anything's possible.

You sure they are blends for espresso? Italian brands or "american" brands.

Not sure about the authority of this page:

> Most of these Italian blends (Illy is the exception) clearly make effective and imaginative use of coffees of the robusta species

http://www.coffeereview.com/italy-seen-from-america-nine-gen...

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#105

Post by bkkk » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 4:33 AM UTC

meowface wrote: post #93

bkkk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a while to figure this out. I also grew up with italian espresso and I always wondered why all these crafty, specialist roasters (all over the world) can't do a drinkable espresso and always end up with undrinkable acid in a cup. A lot of italian espresso blends are a mix Arrabica/Robusta. Robusta beans create the sought-after strong/bitterish italien espresso flavor and probably also reduce/mask/balance t…

Thoughts on Lavazza? I've settled on them for all of my home espresso making, and I think it tastes great. Definitely open to alternatives, though. (Local specialty shops isn't really an option for me; online ordering preferred.)

Lavazza together with stovetop mocha machines are a solid choice IMO. Plus you can buy that brand all over the world. You won't win any specialty points though...

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#106

Post by tailrecursion » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 5:28 AM UTC

bkkk wrote: post #86

luckydata wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs. - disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

It took me a while to figure this out. I also grew up with italian espresso and I always wondered why all these crafty, specialist roasters (all over the world) can't do a drinkable espresso and always end up with undrinkable acid in a cup. A lot of italian espresso blends are a mix Arrabica/Robusta. Robusta beans create the sought-after strong/bitterish italien espresso flavor and probably also reduce/mask/balance t…

You may be on to something, and you're right there is Robusta available that is supposed to be good.

Another difference is that American crafty houses are roasting lighter than in Italy. For whatever reason, Americans are following a different craft and not optimizing their espresso recipes nearly as well as the Italians and not using the same goals and procedures as they do.

And frankly I'm convinced some of the roasters simply don't know what they're doing. They've been told that roasting light is good, and they don't realize that light roasting with espresso brewing is risky. Especially with bean types that are known to be acidic.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#107

Post by jrmg » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 5:29 AM UTC

luckydata wrote: post #23

HoppedUpMenace wrote: post #20

My first machine to make espresso was a espresso/drip coffee combo. Not knowing any better, I was merely pulling strong coffee and not espresso shots. Then I got a stand alone espresso machine, much closer to the real deal but still a far cry from what a coffee roaster like Temple Coffee could make in their store. Finally, invested in a Breville BES870XL and after many trials and errors, my espresso shots are fairly…

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs. - disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

This reminds me of a Medium post I read recently, "Why Espressos in America are not Good?":

https://medium.com/@sinzone/why-is-espresso-in-america-so-ba...

In my opinion the only true Italian Espresso in the Bay Area is made at Cavalli Caffe. It’s a simple small bar with no interior design, no fancy coffee beans, and no extravagant machines. Cavalli is owned and operated by one man from Naples.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#108

Post by sjg007 » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 5:31 AM UTC

acchow wrote: post #102

horshod wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from India, living in the US and I have seen tons of Indian snobs saying the Indian food in the US is just not good enough. I just can't agree. I can imagine that the probability of finding good espresso may be much higher in Italy - maybe every corner cafe makes only the best coffee. But the idea that good espresso cannot be found anywhere in the US (or SFO), which is home to many Europeans, just seems a bit of…

Typically, coffee in Europe isn't the artisanal, single origin stuff one is probably used to on America's west coast. It's a different food. Especially in Italy, where they also traditionally mix in Robusta beans with the Arabica.

Robusta produces a better cream but is flat in taste. Arabica gives you the hops to draw the analogy.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#109

Post by sjg007 » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 5:35 AM UTC

meowface wrote: post #93

bkkk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a while to figure this out. I also grew up with italian espresso and I always wondered why all these crafty, specialist roasters (all over the world) can't do a drinkable espresso and always end up with undrinkable acid in a cup. A lot of italian espresso blends are a mix Arrabica/Robusta. Robusta beans create the sought-after strong/bitterish italien espresso flavor and probably also reduce/mask/balance t…

Thoughts on Lavazza? I've settled on them for all of my home espresso making, and I think it tastes great. Definitely open to alternatives, though. (Local specialty shops isn't really an option for me; online ordering preferred.)

Not a fan. Illy is by far the best option for espresso. Otherwise the best cheap alternative I've found is actually cafe la llave. Makes a great espresso and americano.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#110

Post by inflagranti » Wed, Sep 14, 2016, 6:17 AM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #108

acchow wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically, coffee in Europe isn't the artisanal, single origin stuff one is probably used to on America's west coast. It's a different food. Especially in Italy, where they also traditionally mix in Robusta beans with the Arabica.

Robusta produces a better cream but is flat in taste. Arabica gives you the hops to draw the analogy.

Flat = nuanced!? Because definitely with beer I find it very questionable how breweries out-compete each other with making hoppier and hoppier beers that get completely dominated by it.

And the selection of one be all and end all criteria, in case of beer hops, in case of coffee the pureness of the beans I guess, that everyone measures itself on, seems actually very American to me.