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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#411
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I misspoke. The Federal Reserve, through its mandate to obtain full employment conditions, creates inflation as a side effect.

Inflation's been really low recently.

We've barely scratched full employment. Who knows how long we'll be able to maintain it. The Fed has no room to cut rates if a slowdown occurs without going negative and several economic indicators are pointing to a slowdown.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#412

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

You're not alone. I graduated college a few years ago. My parents made too much to qualify for need-based aid, but too little to be able to actually afford it (living in the NYC sphere, you can earn decent money and still struggle). I too picked a lesser-tier school because it was more affordable. My parents paid for my food, and the occasional rent payment, but the rest was on me. So, I took out loans.

I started college in 2006, and graduated in 2012. Why did it take me so long? Partially because I switched majors to one that would yield a stronger career (read: tech), and partially because I worked my backside off for years, including a full year away on an engineering internship. I worked 20+ hours each week during school doing remote engineering so I could graduate without debt. I regret working so much. Some of my grades suffered because I was oversubscribed, and the work time meant I didn't have much of a social life. I applied for every merit scholarship for which I was eligible, and 33% of my college expense ended up being paid for by one I was fortunate to be granted. The paid-for months were the best.

So I agree with the question: Why should other kids have it easy when I busted my ass? My answer is nuanced. Kids who coasted through school on piles of debt while enjoying the ample time it afforded should not get away scot-free. Nevertheless, it is in society's best interest to help them out. Like it or not, we live in a capitalist and consumer-driven society. Debt is holding people back, as the WSJ article described. We all benefit when people can get out from under their debt and contribute, and we also all benefit when everyone is educated (even if it costs each of us something).

Society has a right to expect something in return, however. My college scholarship was from the federal government, and it came with a service requirement. It was a fair deal. They paid part of my way, and I owed them part of my time. I worked in a job I picked that was relevant to their interests, and contributed to their cause, while starting my career. Both sides won.

My ideal solution would allow citizens to dispel student loans through public service. Unlike making student debt eligible for bankruptcy, public service wouldn't be punitive. The deal would be that you have give back to society if you want society to have your back. We should bring back the Civilian Conservation Corps, and the Works Projects Administration. We have crumbling infrastructure? No problem: put graduates to work fixing it. They can earn minimal wages while getting student loans reduced for each month worked. They'll dispel their loans, have a job (an issue for many), learn practical life skills, and we'll all benefit from public works that make the country stronger. We can have shining bridges, beautiful parks, and an educated citizenry with the agency to move forward and pursue their higher ambitions. Some countries have mandatory military service. Is asking for a few years of service so much for those who want to dispel their loans?

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#413

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

So I don't weigh 600 pounds and smoke. But I have to pay higher health insurance premiums than I rightfully should. Why don't they get consequences?

It's a tricky problem. To both provide consequences and support the weak amoung us.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neosocialism Clearly the two "well known" publications (the most preeminent Marxist journals) listed in that wikipedia article and the fact that the wikipedia article's definition of neo socialism has absolutely nothing to do with Norways economic model point to the fact that the parent comment definitely didn't make up that word out of thin air. Norway is not socialist, neosocialist, or…

It's interesting that Norway is ranked first on the democracy index, yet most Americans view it's policies as 'socialist'.

The democracy index is bs and most Americans don't even know what the word socialist means. So what is your point because you just stated two completely unrelated facts to what is currently being discussed.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#415

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

I agree. I'll just say though, that when jobs are very scarce, people are broke, and everyone and their brother keeps saying "get an education to improve your job prospects", then what do you expect the swarms of unemployed young people to do?

We should absolutely stop subsidizing this craziness though.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#416

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

"for other people's bad financial decisions" Why is making loans to people that have, statistically, a very low chance of paying off somehow not also a "bad financial decision"? We pay for "bad financial decisions" regardless of who makes them - debt forgiveness for individuals or bank bailouts when they get in over their heads. Banks only lend for education because it's not dischargeable - there's no penalty for the…

> Why is making loans to people that have, statistically, a very low chance of paying off somehow not also a "bad financial decision"?

It's important to recognize that you're talking about the federal government and not really banks. Whether it's a bad decision to issue student loans to people who are unlikely to pay them back is irrelevant to the parent question about fairness. The government doesn't have money of its own. It has your money, and my money.

There is no scenario in which the government gets penalized for poor lending practices. The citizens get penalized, and that's why people who were conservative with their educational loans and expenses tend to be less than impressed with the idea of writing of a trillion dollars in student loans. That trillion dollars is largely going to come from the pockets of people who aren't carrying student loans.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. This. THIS. Federally-backed student loans, undischargeable and given to all and sundry, to be spent wherever on whatever, is a gigantic short in the moral-hazard circuit. I would throw an actual party for any dictator in the US who would do to the colleges what Henry VIII did to the monasteries.

>Federally-backed student loans, undischargeable and given to all and sundry, to be spent wherever on whatever, is a gigantic short in the moral-hazard circuit. I'm not sure you're using the term "moral hazard" correctly. If the loans were dischargeable that would be a moral hazard, because the smart thing to do would be to borrow up to your eyeballs and then declare bankruptcy ten years later on graduation day.

Is it not also a moral hazard to lend unceasingly knowing that you'll destroy the economy before taking a hit on the bad loans you've issued?

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#419
The solution seems simple: a few years of public service (infrastructure repair, maintaining parks, teaching in inner-city schools, military, etc.) in exchange for loan forgiveness.

Our taxes are the dues we pay to live in a civil society, but civic responsibility doesn't end there.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#420
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to sign up for "Driving Luxury Cars and Sailing Yachts 101" please. These are vital life skills I require.

Sure, there's plenty of work to be had in the Super-Yacht Crew industry. Don't expect to be home as much, though: https://www.luxyachts.com/crew

For someone who wants to see the world, that seems like a really interesting life.
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