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Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

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Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#91

Post by alphakappa »

anarazel wrote: post #30
luckydata wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs. - disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

I've not found a lot of good espresso after moving to SF either. The best, albeit a bit overpriced, so far is at Reveille's on 4th. If you have suggestions..

Yes - Grand on 23rd and Mission. It's a tiny hole in the wall and they use four barrel beans I believe, but they make a damn good and consistent espresso.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#92

Post by toyg »

bkkk wrote: post #86
luckydata wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs. - disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

It took me a while to figure this out. I also grew up with italian espresso and I always wondered why all these crafty, specialist roasters (all over the world) can't do a drinkable espresso and always end up with undrinkable acid in a cup. A lot of italian espresso blends are a mix Arrabica/Robusta. Robusta beans create the sought-after strong/bitterish italien espresso flavor and probably also reduce/mask/balance t…

A lot of quality Italian coffees are marketed as 100% arabica. This said, I've never worked behind the bar and the Italian food industry is very crafty, so anything's possible.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#93

Post by meowface »

bkkk wrote: post #86
luckydata wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs. - disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

It took me a while to figure this out. I also grew up with italian espresso and I always wondered why all these crafty, specialist roasters (all over the world) can't do a drinkable espresso and always end up with undrinkable acid in a cup. A lot of italian espresso blends are a mix Arrabica/Robusta. Robusta beans create the sought-after strong/bitterish italien espresso flavor and probably also reduce/mask/balance t…

Thoughts on Lavazza? I've settled on them for all of my home espresso making, and I think it tastes great. Definitely open to alternatives, though. (Local specialty shops isn't really an option for me; online ordering preferred.)

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#94

Post by bch »

I can't believe David Schomer's name hasn't come up yet, and only a passing reference to his shop Espresso Vivace.

ftfa: > Only recently, some aspects of the Physics and Chemistry behind the espresso coffee foam have attracted the attention of scientists.

Leaving the weasel-words aside, David at least initiated work on creama (and much more) in 1990s w/ his work, recorded in Espresso Coffee: Professional Techniques[0] c. 1996.

He is camped firmly in the space he helped define in the 90s, and doesn't appear to be going away. He's (in)famous for touring the other shops in Seattle and trying their coffee (espresso), and leaving the cups barely touched, muttering of "lemon defects". After 20 years parked where he is stylistically, he's not getting the attention of people looking for 'new hotness', but if you're for a coffee with its roots in taking measurements, iterating, iterating, iterating and sticking w/ principles at the expense of current fashion, Espresso Vivace is worth a trip. I prefer the "cart" which is a literal hole in the wall beside Chase Bank on Broadway[1].

I'm not a "fan" of many things, and his coffee isn't always my favourite, but seeing no mention of him yet strikes me as absurd.

pre-edit: scanning TFA has me scratching my head even more -- referring to the grounds as "powder" is just wrong. If you're going to bother to fuss this hard over coffee and technique, pedantry here is required.

edit: more links, date clarification

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Espresso-Coffee-Professional-David-Sc...

[1] http://espressovivace.com/index.php/retail/sidewalk-bar/

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#95

Post by jowiar »

silverlake wrote: post #64
luckydata wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs. - disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

Third wave espresso is acidic on purpose.

It's more than that though. "Citrus" was a flavor that roasters were trying to bring out, which is fine (and interesting). However, what happened with hoppiness in IPAs happened with acidity in American espresso. As roasters' palates got accustomed to a particular roast, they needed to keep going further in that direction to create a similar flavor. Thus, escalating acidity, and the rise of the sour bombs in 2011 or so. I feel like things have tapered off a bit in the past couple years (at least on the East coast).

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#96

Post by jowiar »

js2 wrote: post #62
BurningFrog wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be that taste differs in different parts of the world? Just trying to have everyone get along and get to be right.

American coffee snob here (not that I necessarily have good taste though): I was blown away by the espresso in Italy. On a two-week trip, every espresso I had there was better than any espresso I've had in the U.S. Which isn't to say I haven't had great coffee in America, just not great espresso. I think mostly Americans just don't care about espresso. Pet peeve: high-end restaurants in the U.S. mostly don't care abo…

Restaurants are starting to get it. I've been to a handful of places in the past couple years where I left thinking "somebody gave a shit!" (which is really all it takes) -- Places that come to mind are Vetri, Osteria, and Zahav in Philly, Agern and NoMad in NYC.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#97

Post by netghost »

bch wrote: post #94

I can't believe David Schomer's name hasn't come up yet, and only a passing reference to his shop Espresso Vivace. ftfa: > Only recently, some aspects of the Physics and Chemistry behind the espresso coffee foam have attracted the attention of scientists. Leaving the weasel-words aside, David at least initiated work on creama (and much more) in 1990s w/ his work, recorded in Espresso Coffee: Professional Techniques[0…

Vivace is certainly one of my favorite coffee shops in Seattle. Thanks for the background, I never knew all the work that was going into my cup.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#98

Post by ihaveajob »

aarmenante wrote: post #73
luckydata wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritual's coffee is terrible: acidic, unpleasant to the palate and lacking in aroma. I hope your coffee is better than theirs. - disclosure: I'm Italian and I believe espresso in San Francisco sucks almost universally

I feel like sometimes I'm the only person who does not care for ritual or bluebottle. I usually just keep my mouth shut in fear of people freaking out. Wayyyy too acidic.

Filtered coffee is very different from espresso. For a long time, I used to believe the old adagio that American coffee is just too weak, but then I started to appreciate it for what it is, and I enjoy it a lot. I wouldn't take the fruity (acidic?) coffee that Ritual and their cadre prepare as espresso, but as pour over, I haven't had anything that compares.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#99

Post by netghost »

benmarks wrote: post #43

I'm curious what others may have to say about which regions have great independent shops (or franchises, if such exist). I'm lucky to travel all over the world for work, in part because I can taste-tour espresso culture everywhere. There are scant few places with consistently good espresso (read: flavorful, non-bitter shots with rich, oily crema). Australia has proven to be the steady best. I've been thoroughly disap…

Well if you like espresso made from beans by Zoka, then drop by Seattle some time. Zoka has a few spots in town, great place to work, study or meet up with folks.

Honestly there's a bunch of really great coffee shops around here, well and a few terrible ones, can't say if they're the best, but it's not hard to get a decent cup.

Re: Neglected Food Bubbles: The Espresso Coffee Foam

#100

Post by brianwawok »

dougk16 wrote: post #67
HoppedUpMenace wrote: post #20

My first machine to make espresso was a espresso/drip coffee combo. Not knowing any better, I was merely pulling strong coffee and not espresso shots. Then I got a stand alone espresso machine, much closer to the real deal but still a far cry from what a coffee roaster like Temple Coffee could make in their store. Finally, invested in a Breville BES870XL and after many trials and errors, my espresso shots are fairly…

The amount of crema is definitely tied to air exposure so the quicker you can use up your beans the better Check out this simple vacuum sealer: http://www.pump-n-seal.com/ No affiliation, I've just been using this device for years. It's basically a simple bike pump in reverse. Put your coffee in a mason jar, give it a few good pumps, and you have delicious crema for weeks and weeks. Every time you pop the top the aro…

Coffee shops go through 5 bags of beans a day. I doubt they have as many stale bean problems.
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