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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#211

Post by morgante »

deegles wrote: post #200
morgante wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same reason we let people walk away from homes (or not walk away, simply not be able to afford them) Like I said in my comment, I recognize that there needs to be some option for people who can't possibly repay their student loans. Defaulting on your mortgage is not consequence-free: you lose your home and hurt your credit. We don't let people just forgive their mortgages and keep their homes without hurting their…

How would one repossess an education? Isn't that the reason student loans are not dischargeable?

Like toomuchtodo mentions, we could treat it like other unsecured debt (like credit card debt).

Just because it's unsecured doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to discharge it with bankruptcy.

Get the government out of the loan business and the market will correct itself. You won't be able to get a loan for a useless degree and if you end up being unable to pay off your loan you can go through normal bankruptcy proceedings and their consequences.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#212

Post by metaphorm »

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

> Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions?

you've got a serious lack of perspective if that's what you think this is

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#213

Post by MrQuincle »

morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

Schools can charge a lot because other people pay a lot. As individual you cannot single-handedly decide to pay less.

Compared to Europe the education system in the US looks like a system that is trying to get as much money out of young adults as possible rather than getting as many people as possible an affordable education.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#214

Post by h4nkoslo »

If there is going to be any "debt relief", it should be accomplished by taxing the schools & administrations that have immensely benefitted over the past 60 years from the massive subsidies granted to higher ed.

This just shows how incredibly stupid the right wing is in the US. They could be using this as a cudgel to punish their intellectual opponents in the universities (entirely justified, since their claims to be increasing the human capital of their students in an economically productive way were evidently false), and simultaneously break down a barrier used to exclude a large number of their constituents (non-college-educated whites) from white collar employment.

Instead it looks like they might be setting up to cut another check and further solidify the role of colleges as ideologically hostile gatekeepers to decent employment.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#215

Post by icebraining »

BenElgar wrote: post #58
k-mcgrady wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". I think another part of it is that even low level office jobs now require some sort…

I think the idea of offering loans only for 'vocational' degrees is extremely damaging. It leads to people taking 'Software Engineering' degrees rather than computer science or maths or physics when really these less directed degrees generally allow people to explore what they are really most passionate about. The idea of a university is not a place where one goes to get a piece of paper that certifies one as compete…

It leads to people taking 'Software Engineering' degrees rather than computer science or maths or physics when really these less directed degrees generally allow people to explore what they are really most passionate about.

I share your concerns; on the other hand, is signing up for a 3-to-5 year course really the best way to help people discover their passion? As an exploratory path, it sound expensive both in resources and in time wasted for the student.

Around here, we have something called "summer university" wherein high-school students can spend a week or two getting an high level overview of the college course. It's extra-curricular, so few attend, but seems like a similar approach introduced into the regular HS calendar (say, the last two months), getting everyone to try a few courses of their choice, could provide even more exploration for much lower costs.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#216

Post by bsder »

icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

> The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, electricians, mechanics, roofers, HVAC specialists, etc, are all the ones that are currently in huge demand.

Huge demand? Not in the US. Trades salary growth has been flat.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#217

Post by morgante »

MrQuincle wrote: post #213
morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

Schools can charge a lot because other people pay a lot. As individual you cannot single-handedly decide to pay less. Compared to Europe the education system in the US looks like a system that is trying to get as much money out of young adults as possible rather than getting as many people as possible an affordable education.

There are vast differences in the cost and benefits of different degrees. Nobody forces you to go to an expensive, low-benefit university.

In fact, there are lots of free calculators which will show you the expected earnings and cost of different degrees.

You can single-handedly decide to go to a cheap community college for the first 2 years.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#218

Post by stephaniepier »

jonahrd wrote: post #184
morgante wrote: post #176

Am I the only one who hates the notion of being forced to pay for other people's bad financial decisions? I made the choice to go to a slightly less prestigious school so I wouldn't have to go into debt for college. I also worked all through college to pay for my expenses. Should I now be punished for that decision? Why should we make people's financial mistakes consequence-free? I think the government should get out…

You may be right that it's a poor financial decision, but I still hope to one day live in a country where people can pursue education in any subject matter (not just STEM/other money makers) for the pure purpose of educational fulfillment. That can only be done with a system that helps pay for education instead of letting the market decide which degrees are most valuable in terms of pure capitalistic measures

Well, and really I think it depends on the person rather than the degree. One of my friends majored in theater, which I'm sure many people see as a useless degree. She paid off her loans and bought a house within 3 years of graduating and owns a successful business teaching voice lessons over skype. On other other hand, I know someone who has a PhD in biochemistry who struggled to find a job for years. It's not fair to say "this degree is bad and this one is good." There are so many other factors.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#219

Post by refurb »

cmurf wrote: post #210
v64 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The University of Texas has in state tuition for below 6k a year, and in some cases out of state tuition can come in at below 10k as well. [1] This is just tuition and administrative fees and doesn't include housing and textbooks. [1] https://admissions.utexas.edu/tuition/cost-of-attendance Edit: Sorry I misread. These stats are by semester, not year.

Right and also tuition doesn't mean cost of attendance where there are all kinds of additional fees, books, room and board, etc. Cost of attendance is easily double that of tuition. So it's actually in the vicinity of $25K per year for a state university. State college and community college in particular can be a lot less, and it's possible to even split the difference and do 2 years community and then graduate from…

room and board

You're paying for room and board regardless if you go to college or not. Or you can just live with your parents.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#220

Post by chumich1 »

morgante wrote: post #186
Salgat wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here! However, there is a line to draw on how much debt to put on someone. I know people who have tuition payments cutting into their living wages, affecting their ability to have even the basic necessities. There is nothing good about this unnecessary suffering, having to worry if you will still be able to afford a meal or a roof over your head.

> However, there is a line to draw on how much debt to put on someone. Yes, people should decide how much debt they want to take on. There are vast differences in the value of different degrees (cost and earnings). It's people's responsibility to educate themselves. The rest of us shouldn't have to subsidize someone's terrible decision to go into debt for a degree in basket-weaving.

Should we be expecting the average 17-year old to be make sound financial decisions? Especially given how much money is involved.
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