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Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

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Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#111

Post by r_smart »

ceejayoz wrote: post #16
tswartz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying off your debt early also builds really good financial habits which will help in the future. You learn to live below your means, make a budget, etc

If they're Federal loans with a often below-inflation interest rate, the actual good financial habit is often to not pay it off, and instead amass a) an emergency fund and b) sock the rest into retirement via an index fund or something similar.

Below inflation interest rates are long gone. I'm sitting at around 6.5% for most of my debt. And that's after refinancing.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#112

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

maxerickson wrote: post #38
icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

The trades are difficult to completely automate but there are similar impacts from deskilling and moving work into factories. When I say deskilling, I'm talking about creating products that reduce the amount of skill required to do a task. This increases the pool of labor competing for the job. It also often increases how much a single person can get done in a given amount of time. Compare PEX and copper pipe fitting…

Yep, the laser cutter I operate can do in a day what it was taking 4 apprentices to do in a week. And it can do things no human could possibly do with hand tools.

The next thing we'd like to get us something like the Voortman V808[1], that thing should cut or labour input requirements by 50% or more.

1. https://youtu.be/Tk1un34l81E

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#113

Post by santaclaus »

joesmo wrote: post #100
icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

They aren't good jobs. The average salary for plumbers is around $50-55k or so, right around the median for the US. Ok, but certainly not good. For roofers and mechanics, you're significantly below the median around $35k, basically in poverty especially if you have a family. I don't think encouraging people away from education is the problem when salaries are this low (poverty levels).

35K is def not poverty. I managed to get by in Manhattan on less...

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#114

Post by r_smart »

clifanatic wrote: post #91
n72 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely understand the sentiment, but if there is legislation to forgive student loans it will not have actually hurt you. In other words, such anger at the forgiveness of student loans really just comes down to envy - namely that other people received a benefit you didn't.

> that other people received a benefit you didn't Actually, probably not. That's part of it, but if student loan debts are forgiven, the banks aren't going to eat all of that cost - the government is going to step in and help recoup some of that cost. So not only did I have to pay for my own college education, I'll be taxed to help pay for thousands of others, as well.

Honestly, based on the interest rates, and their comparison to the market rates on other things, I assume we're already having to do that. I know a lot of people that choose to just not pay their loans, then people who do pay them get higher rates to cover that.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#115

Post by readhn »

My call is that we will have a student debt relief fund when enough government folks get scared (within 5 years my guess). So basically the printing press will turn on and we will bail out students. Watch out for all the controversy that's going to come with this bail out.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#116

Post by tw04 »

flubert wrote: post #106
icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

>plumbers, electricians, mechanics, roofers, HVAC specialists, etc, are all the ones that are currently in huge demand. ...You might get a different picture of things if you hang out in some of the skill trades reddits: https://www.reddit.com/r/SkilledTradesNetwork/wiki/community... ...fer instance: "Here's what 10$ an hour looks like! Had to put in my 2 weeks." https://www.reddit.com/r/Welding/comments/52byky/heres_…

>>...fer instance: "Here's what 10$ an hour looks like! Had to put in my 2 weeks."

And pretty much every reply is "I make way more than that, what are you thinking??"

I'd imagine the guy either doesn't know how to show up consistently and on-time, or has such a severe lack of social skills that he can't properly interview for a job. If you can weld like that and can't find a job making more than $10/hr you are doing something SERIOUSLY wrong.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#117

Post by crush_xc »

whyenot wrote: post #103
k-mcgrady wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see how you thought I was advocating loans for only vocational degrees. Something like Computer Science I think would be fine as a job path is very clear and well paid. I can't speak for Maths of Physics because I don't know much about jobs paths from those. I was more talking about degrees that have no clear job path and which could don't need to be studied at an institution where you are largely paying for th…

> it is not worth $100k and there are many other ways to have that experience that do not cost that much You can get an excellent education at a state school for less than $6k per year. The person who gets a degree in music theory, philosophy, or art history may not get a job that ties in to their major, but these people all leave college with skills in critical thinking, writing, the ability to meet deadlines, skill…

what state does that exist in? No state school here in NJ is under 10k a year, and none of them are ranked decently except for maybe Rutgers, Stevens, and NJIT's architecture program.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#118

Post by crush_xc »

Retric wrote: post #14

IMO, a large chunk of this would be resolved if federal loans where limited based on tuition not just need. If a school charges more than ~20k/year then students can't apply for federal loans and private loans become dischargeable. Note: Some schools still charage less than 10k/year. http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list... Instead, schools have a huge incentive to raise tuition endlessly and f…

Every state school in NJ is pushing close to 20k a year now with fees. Let alone room and board and you're getting close to 30k.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#119

Post by yummyfajitas »

coldpie wrote: post #47
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

I understand the sentiment, but "I had to do , therefore everybody has to do " isn't a great argument either, especially when it leads to a stagnant economy due to nearly an entire generation with no funds to spend. I'm not advocating for any particular solution, but don't react so quickly that you cut off your nose to spite your face.

I'm confused. We will transfer wealth from people without degrees to (typically much wealthier) people with degrees. How does this prevent economic stagnation? Could you explain the mechanics in detail?

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#120

Post by stale2002 »

icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

Or how about software engineer?

You can absolutely get a job as a web developer without a degree. I know many who have done so.

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