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Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

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Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#121

Post by nyddle »

rjeli wrote: post #73
the_common_man wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I always find it amusing when people find russia and china on a lower moral/ethical ground when everything on american soil is equally watched and processed. if not by nsa, it's for ads.

Please take a look at the Human Rights Watch reports[0] for USA, China and Russia. I honestly wonder how you can reach such a conclusion about freedom of expression and human rights in those countries. [0] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016

Human Rights Watch. By Americans for Americans.

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#122

Post by joesmo »

rjeli wrote: post #73
the_common_man wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I always find it amusing when people find russia and china on a lower moral/ethical ground when everything on american soil is equally watched and processed. if not by nsa, it's for ads.

Please take a look at the Human Rights Watch reports[0] for USA, China and Russia. I honestly wonder how you can reach such a conclusion about freedom of expression and human rights in those countries. [0] https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016

The parent is talking only about surveillance, but from the report you linked, it's pretty obvious the US, Russia, and China, are pretty much in the same horrific boat as far as human rights abuses. Actually, I'd say the US, with 2.37 million people behind bars is worse than either China or Russia or any other country currently on earth. When you're systematically ruining that many lives, you're in Nazi territory.

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#123

Post by blinkingled »

> 3x more hardware # for Postgres

Tells you something about how insanely costly Oracle's licenses are. Whatever you say about Oracle though - Oracle DB is an incredibly well performing and reliable piece of software. (Attested by experience - we had several Oracle DBs running on HP-UX Itanium that only needed to be handled when OS and Oracle patches were needed. Massively used too - think 36 PA-RISC cores at peak, 24 IA64 ones. It also helps that there are lot of DBAs with great deal of Oracle experience.)

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#124

Post by mistermumble »

jorgecastillo wrote: post #83
the_common_man wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I always find it amusing when people find russia and china on a lower moral/ethical ground when everything on american soil is equally watched and processed. if not by nsa, it's for ads.

I don't think you can lump Russia and China together. China is truly "on lower moral/ethical grounds". I can't trust any country that has such pervasive censorship policy and such blatantly protectionist policies as China. Frankly I trust the Russian government as much as I trust the US government or as much as I trust my government (the Mexican government). I don't think I would feel safe living in China! I wouldn't…

I've been in China three times in the past year. I agree that it is creepy not to be able to access Gmail, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube. But in terms of personal safety and freedom to walk around and see things, I felt very free. I feel more nervous walking around most North American cities' downtown area (LA, NYC, SF, Chicago). And also Mexico city.

Nervousness with regard to both police and local citizenry.

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#125

Post by gnomeoss »

dubcanada wrote: post #120
zuron7 wrote: post #44

Yandex.Mail provides custom domain E-Mails for free, the only large company to do so and not to mention how good it is.

zoho offers free custom domain email hosting. It's also surprisingly good, the UI/integration between the pieces is very well done.

Zoho has the worst email service I ever tried. Even if I whitelist some email addresses and mark them dozen of times as not spam, it still put them into the spam list...

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#126

Post by plorkyeran »

anarazel wrote: post #99
coolspot wrote: post #89

My take aways: * Reasons to migrate were: unresponsive support, inconvenient deployment, closed source, huge cost. * It took just 10 man-years to rewrite whole project from Oracle to Postgres (e.g. 10 developers, 1 year), which is amazing. * They benefited from Postgres data versioning, arrays and composite types. * They liked writing logic on PL/pgSQL more than on Oracle PL/SQL: reduced code size, increased test cov…

> Great thing for community is that Yandex now commited to Postgres, meaning it will get more testing and bug-fixes faster. That remains to be seen. There's a fair amount of huge postgres users that don't even bother to report bugs they find...

Yandex has a pretty good track record for contributing back to open source projects they use (and open-sourcing their own technologies).

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#127

Post by johansch »

bobuk wrote: post #110
johansch wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two words: "consultancy services"

You can check it on sec.gov. Yandex spend nothing on consultancy for 2014 and 2015 years

I can't be bothered to dig right now, but you're saying that a company with 5000+ employees did not use any consultants at all, zero, for 2014 and 2015? I really can't believe that.

Edit: there are many ways to hide bribes, of course. Typically it involves overpaying for something. It would be hard for even a non-corrupt tax authority to tell the difference between having bad negotiation skills and bribes.

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#128

Post by johansch »

bobuk wrote: post #112
avar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just give someone a big performance bonus with the understanding that part of it is to be used on bribes? Seems rather easy.

Nope, both salaries and bonuses (even on C level) is too low in Russia to hide any amount of bribe in them. Anyway, I never heard about bribes for electricity for last 5 years in Russia.

I think you're an advanced version of a putinbot :).

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#129

Post by nickpsecurity »

zzzcpan wrote: post #92
nickpsecurity wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many reporters and dissidents are murdered in the US versus Russia? Russia is way worse in civil rights and surveillance. Doesnt excuse America for the schemes they pull but it's definitely safer here unless you're in the hood.

Well, it's kind of safe for their citizens too, if they don't get involved in the things that get them killed, as those are not random things. But civil rights aside, online surveillance there is not yet at the level of reading everyone's emails and while they really want to do that they have a hard time implementing something like this for various reasons. It's definitely safer to use those online services, than the…

How do you know that? Russia doesnt publish what Russian intelligence is doing. They also don't have a Snowden who leaked almost all their secrets. That we did is only reason you can make thag comparison. I'd love to see an equivalent dunp for Russia to do the comparison. ;)

Re: Yandex.Mail's successful migration from Oracle to Postgres [pdf]

#130

Post by syncsynchalt »

fla wrote: post #65
niftich wrote: post #53

So having read through the slides, these are not bad slides, but I'm missing the 'real' wow-factor of why Postgres was a better choice in the end than Oracle. There's no doubt that the rewrite (which, because of PL/SQL -> PL/pgSQL, there was a rewrite) benefited them, but all I can glean from the slides is Postgres hasn't failed them yet and the rewrite worked. So as much as I want to talk about Oracle vs. Postgres,…

Postgres is free

10 man-years are not though.

I'm a postgres fan and booster myself but I'd need a good reason to migrate a data backend on any project I'm managing.

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