Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief • Hacker News Board

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#61

Post by karma_vaccum123 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:06 PM UTC

dragthor wrote: post #5

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

My wife and I worked and sacrificed to pay our student loans off. Struggle builds character, appreciation, and gratitude.

Its nice that you earned your black-belt in self-discipline, but it doesn't benefit society much for you to become a miser to pay for a piece of paper. We are in a consumption economy...we need you spending money on things that create jobs for others, like homes and cars.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#62

Post by sseagull » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:07 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #47

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

I understand the sentiment, but "I had to do , therefore everybody has to do " isn't a great argument either, especially when it leads to a stagnant economy due to nearly an entire generation with no funds to spend. I'm not advocating for any particular solution, but don't react so quickly that you cut off your nose to spite your face.

I came here to say something similar. Yes, you can be angry, but sometimes it's better (as an economy and as a country) to just let it go.

The selfish thinking that people shouldn't get anything for "free" (ie, shifting education burden from taxes to the student) and everyone should be accountable for every dollar is how we got here.

If I just finished paying off my student loans, and debt forgiveness happened, I would be annoyed and a bit jealous. But also happy that those who had their debt forgiven now have more money to do stuff and contribute to the economy. I would truly be happy for them. Why wouldn't I?

(Note: I don't believe debt forgiveness will ever happen)

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#63

Post by dman » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #14

IMO, a large chunk of this would be resolved if federal loans where limited based on tuition not just need. If a school charges more than ~20k/year then students can't apply for federal loans and private loans become dischargeable. Note: Some schools still charage less than 10k/year. http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-list... Instead, schools have a huge incentive to raise tuition endlessly and f…

Who sets those limits and how are they enforced over time? What if colleges find other ways to charge you money (accomodation, usage fees for equipment etc).

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#64

Post by karma_vaccum123 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:10 PM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #40

Many generations before now either had access to very low or free tuitions from public universities, or fairly low tuitions (relative to future earnings) for private schools. Society subsidized those costs because it was an excellent investment on future economic growth. Somehow we got twisted into this track of thought that everything must be individually accounted, and student became individually loaded with the de…

It really requires a rethinking of the need for college, how college should work, and how it should be paid for.

Most undergraduates have no real need to obtain a gold-plated degree. Undergraduate education in nearly all fields is well-understood and can be delivered adequately at low cost. This is why foreign countries that aren't wealthy still produce excellent undergrads. Only in the US do we believe you really can't get educated unless you went to an expensive and/or elite school.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#65

Post by jrs235 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:11 PM UTC

atombath wrote: post #28

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

I understand that feeling... I'm nearing the end of my loans and dropped $3k on one of them yesterday. I would have rather had a vacation if it's just going to vanish! ...but don't get salty because the debt won't vanish. I have no doubt that if an education loan is forgiven, it WILL affect that persons credit rating. Much like when a debt is forgiven/charged-off. Also, charge-offs are typically treated as a form of…

And will the forgiveness be tax free or will the IRS come after students for income taxes?

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#66

Post by TheCoelacanth » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

Jach wrote: post #22

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #3

If this happens, do I get benefits on the debt I've already paid off? I would be pretty pissed if I didn't. I worked my ass off to pay my loans.

Are you familiar with the phrase "from each according to his ability"?

If it is a means-tested program, say a more expansive version of IBR where you have to pay an income-adjusted amount for a certain number of years to have the loan forgiven, I would be okay with that. If it were a straight up give away to everyone with loans regardless of whether they could afford to pay for it, I would be angry.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#67

Post by karma_vaccum123 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:12 PM UTC

icehawk219 wrote: post #10

Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". The grand irony in all of this is that the people who did go on to become plumbers, ele…

Not only that, but "tradespeople" start earning right after high school. That four-five year head start is more meaningful than people realize. You could be making a down payment on owning your residence while your friends are still undergrads. Nothing wins in investing like being early.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#68

Post by up_and_up » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:13 PM UTC

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #48

up_and_up wrote: post #26

As you are paying off your loans remember the high price of your education helped pay for not just a fancy diploma but also: Shiny new buildings, Hotel-like dorms, Professors making 400k, Administrators making 700k, a moped for every football player ...

Lol in which world do professors get paid 400k? Even at Berkeley CS mis career pay is roughly 150k. Administrators have ballooned. Also our dorms are pretty shit.

Business school professors even at Michigan make 200-600k. I know one of them.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#69

Post by karma_vaccum123 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:14 PM UTC

BenElgar wrote: post #58

k-mcgrady wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Part of the problem is that the last few generations have been told the same thing: blue collar jobs aren't "good" jobs. You need to go to college so you can get a "good" job sitting at a desk because those other jobs are below you. If you take one of those blue collar jobs then you've failed and aren't "achieving your potential". I think another part of it is that even low level office jobs now require some sort…

I think the idea of offering loans only for 'vocational' degrees is extremely damaging. It leads to people taking 'Software Engineering' degrees rather than computer science or maths or physics when really these less directed degrees generally allow people to explore what they are really most passionate about. The idea of a university is not a place where one goes to get a piece of paper that certifies one as compete…

> university is a place where people should go to learn about things that interest them and inspire them in the company of other like-minded people whilst simultaneously growing as an individual

As long as we continue to believe this, nothing will change.

Universities indoctrinate, lets not be naive. Most schools have little interest in widening the perspectives of students. They are on a mission to unify perspectives. Indeed I would say that universities are more responsible for our Idiocracy than television - graduates really believe they have become enlightened when in fact they have been programmed.

Re: Soaring Student Debt Prompts Calls for Relief

#70

Post by jrs235 » Tue, Sep 13, 2016, 4:15 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #25

jostmey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the problem. You add bankruptcy back in and the student loan problem will disappear. Banks will start assessing each person's ability to pay back loans before giving them a lifetime burden of debt. Fix bankruptcy laws, fix the student loan problem.

How do you evaluate an 18 year old on their ability to pay back the loan? You ask them their major, which will probably change?

>You ask them their major, which will probably change?

Sure. And if they change then their loan status/situation will change.

Just like my mortgage through my Credit Union. The terms of the mortgage when I refinanced was owner occupied for 12 months after the closing date. If I move out prior to the 12 months I'm technically in default and the holder of my note gets to choose what to do.