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Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#251

Post by nommm-nommm »

jessaustin wrote: post #196
nommm-nommm wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? I wasn't let into R rated movies unaccompanied in high school. Most of the time when we snuck in after buying a ticket to another movie we were caught. They'll come around asking for your tickets during the film if they suspect you are underage or didn't pay or whatever.

Where did you grow up, Soviet Russia? I wasn't even one of those "mall rat" kids, and most of the time I went to the movies with friends we switched to a different screen.

Well the suburban malls didn't care for "urban" kids taking the bus to the mall even if they weren't causing trouble. They eventually just flat out banned anyone under 18 from entering the mall without a parent, seriously, the mall cop stands at the entrance and IDs young looking people at the entrance. That was after I turned 18 they started that policy though. When I was about 24 I got IDed at the entrance to the mall and I was so disgusted by it I never wanted to go back (not that I ever want to go to the mall in the first place)

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#252

Post by RaleyField »

res0nat0r wrote: post #171
smokeyj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today Zuck censors for America, tomorrow it's the royal saudi family. This isn't a reasonable compromise. Reasonable is having the offended disconnect their internet and resign from society so they can live in their curated bubble of an existence.

Or the folks who don't like Facebook asking them to censor their images could just not use Facebook and post elsewhere...

Nobody seems to be thinking that they are forcing Facebook to be an arbiter deciding on when a picture that would be indecent by itself is culturally significant enough to allow showing it. What happens when they misjudge and courts disagree?

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#253

Post by new_hackers »

r_smart wrote: post #158
new_hackers wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. And at the same time Americans have been inundated with "war" and the pro-Nationalist message that we should always, ALWAYS, 1) support our troops no matter what and 2) never forget. The fear-mongering is rampant and relentless. And everyone is afraid to question it.

To be fair: 1) Leadership should be criticized, particularly political decisions leading to war, but I'd steer away from treating soldiers like shit. In a lot of ways this is punching down. It's mostly people from poorer families that join the military, as some of the benefits are a huge boon to getting out of poverty for them or their children. I don't know if you've ever talked to a recruiter, but...there's some po…

Yes the leadership should be criticized. My point it is a brainwashing tool. My comment probably did not properly convey the nuanced and subtle ways of mind control. It goes more like this when expanded:

"You cannot ever criticize our troops, or our military, because they are heroes. If you do, you are not an American. You must never forget that our troops and our military protect you always."

The tautology is that the actions of our military are always justified.

And this supports the parent comment that the average American has no clue what it actually means to let their military-industrial complex run rampant across the globe, because to question it would be un-American.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#254

Post by axlee »

alistairSH wrote: post #164
axlee wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue raised here is that Facebook censors content according to rules based entirely on American values, while parading as some sort of global organization, "connecting the world" type-of-thing. What is morally acceptable to see on a feed for an American is not the same for a Norwegian, a Japanese or a Sudanese. The author mentions sexuality/nudity content here, which is a blatant cultural difference betw…

Maybe Facebook should look into developing local content rules instead of relying on a guideline written in California by Californians for Californians? How would such a thing work? Would a user register as a resident of a particular country? Or, IP-based checks of location? I'm a Scot living in America, with Dutch friends - do I see the US, UK, or Euro content? Does the content I see (on the same feed) change based…

I think a location-based policy at the time of posting is sensible. That's also how international law work: if I smoke a joint in Amsterdam, I am not liable for it back home. When in Rome...

I also think that the policy should apply to the poster, not to the viewers. What makes our world great is its wide range of cultures, and we should not isolate ourselves in little silos. Conversely, we should not allow a single culture to dictate to everybody else what is acceptable or not.

To be fair, I don't think any policy is necessary besides moderating and reporting illegal content. But since Facebook seems quite inclined to go the extra mile to make its platform less offensive, I think this would be a good compromise.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#255

Post by smokeyj »

res0nat0r wrote: post #171
smokeyj wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today Zuck censors for America, tomorrow it's the royal saudi family. This isn't a reasonable compromise. Reasonable is having the offended disconnect their internet and resign from society so they can live in their curated bubble of an existence.

Or the folks who don't like Facebook asking them to censor their images could just not use Facebook and post elsewhere...

Agreed. Ideally a diary with a strong lock.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#256

Post by rahkiin »

rhino369 wrote: post #218
r_smart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has something like 330 million people in it. I assure you, there are a lot of us who see the basic logic around this and think we should stop worrying about the occasional nipple. In this particular instance though, it's worse than your complaint. We're talking about censoring an iconic image captured from an important time in our history. I'd be willing to bet that even among the anti-nipple people, this ima…

This issue is beyond simple American prudish tendencies. Because America has always been a bit weird about sex, this reaction about sexualizing children is very new. Before the 80s or 90s nobody thought of child nudity as sexual. This exact photo was on the front page of the NYTimes when it was first taken. This issue is more about the hyper paranoia about child abuse and child porn. Then again something like 1/8 chi…

Can you give a source on the 1/8? I am wondering what counts as 'sexual abuse'. Eg. If a mother or father kissing her or his kid on the mouth is sexual abuse, the number does not surprise me.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#257

Post by serge2k »

omginternets wrote: post #84
weberc2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American, and as far as I can tell, beheadings are at least as controversial as nudity. I wouldn't put much stock in the LA Times either; lots of very biased reporting. EDIT: There seems to be some confusion as to whether we're talking about actual beheadings (e.g., ISIS videos) or theatrical violence. My previous statement pertains to the former context; I don't dispute that fictitious violence in America is…

>beheadings are at least as controversial as nudity From one internet stranger to another, and with all due respect: bullshit. We as a society positively freak out over nudity and drop our middle-school kids off to see violent movies without even thinking twice. To claim differently is to either a) appeal to an exception that does not represent the overall social norm b) be disingenuous (which I don't think is your c…

A beheading in a movie isn't a real beheading. I would venture a guess that most people would be upset if an ISIS beheading video was shown to their children.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#258

Post by mason240 »

jimmytidey wrote: post #240
mason240 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society has complete control in deciding whether or not Facebook is a major artery of communication.

In that case why do we have laws for television stations or print media? Why do we have libel or defamation law, even? Because we can see it's essential for democracy for public discourse to be structured in a certain way, specifically that it not disproportionately represent one person or organisations views. I can see that in principle people can choose not to use Facebook, but in practice we see that it is very do…

>In that case why do we have laws for television stations or

The amount of bandwith for tv stations is limited, the internet is effectivly limitless.

>print media

We don't really. Print media is extremely off limits because it's protected by the First Amendment. Try passing regulation requiring a newspaper to print an image just because you deem it worthy.

>Why do we have libel or defamation law, even?

We don't really, the bar is very high. Also, these laws to apply to things written online, just ask Gawker.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#259

Post by r_smart »

josu wrote: post #202
r_smart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has something like 330 million people in it. I assure you, there are a lot of us who see the basic logic around this and think we should stop worrying about the occasional nipple. In this particular instance though, it's worse than your complaint. We're talking about censoring an iconic image captured from an important time in our history. I'd be willing to bet that even among the anti-nipple people, this ima…

I recommend this article from NN Taleb: "The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dominance of the Stubborn Minority" http://fooledbyrandomness.com/minority.pdf

Not all the way through, but just wanted to say thanks for the link. Interesting, and a great summary of how something like the photo in question could get censored. The majority doesn't see it as child pornography, but who's going to fight against the person decrying this as lewd and harmful to children?

Although in this case, the answer might be: Everybody.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#260

Post by Inthenameofmine »

hasenj wrote: post #205
mgleason_3 wrote: post #54

Americans are so bought into the idea that "explicit" images are bad that they can't see another viewpoint. Its become "natural". And, as the author pointed out, Americans are so blind to it that you don't even see the problem with censoring nipples but not beheadings. We literally cant see that noone should be injured by seeing a womans breast, but seeing a beheaded body - thats OK? Its interesting to see this story…

What cultures, outside Europe, think it's ok to display sexualized body parts? Even in an advanced/industrialized nation like Japan, typical women don't even show cleavage, because it's considered indecent. Typical TV dramas hardly show kissing scenes.

And then again, in Japan sexualization of teens is completely normal. The world is a big and diverse place with different values.
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