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Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#131

Post by harryf »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #127
omginternets wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>beheadings are at least as controversial as nudity From one internet stranger to another, and with all due respect: bullshit. We as a society positively freak out over nudity and drop our middle-school kids off to see violent movies without even thinking twice. To claim differently is to either a) appeal to an exception that does not represent the overall social norm b) be disingenuous (which I don't think is your c…

No middle school kid is going to get into an R rated movie if they are dropped off and not escorted by and adult at all times.

That's some serious security control you imagine there...

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#133

Post by dragonwriter »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #127
omginternets wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>beheadings are at least as controversial as nudity From one internet stranger to another, and with all due respect: bullshit. We as a society positively freak out over nudity and drop our middle-school kids off to see violent movies without even thinking twice. To claim differently is to either a) appeal to an exception that does not represent the overall social norm b) be disingenuous (which I don't think is your c…

No middle school kid is going to get into an R rated movie if they are dropped off and not escorted by and adult at all times.

> No middle school kid is going to get into an R rated movie if they are dropped off and not escorted by and adult.

IME, insofar as that is enforced at multiplexes, its enforced mostly at ticket sales and at multiplex entrances, not entrances to individual screening rooms with the complex; tickets are usually not verified at entrances to individual screening rooms except for special circumstances, e.g., opening weekend for major blockbusters -- which only occasionally even overlap with R-rated films.

So, its not at all impossible for a middle school kid to get into an R-rated movie without escort by theater hopping.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#134

Post by MattConfluence »

merraksh wrote: post #67

Facebook ploughed on – before performing an embarrassing 360 and claiming that it was imposing this policy out of concern for victims. A 360 would be embarrassing as it places you back to the same road. Perhaps it was an "embarrassing 180" instead.

I was puzzled by that sentence too, but I figured it could be interpreted as "going in the same direction, for a different reason".

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#135

Post by rm999 »

merraksh wrote: post #67

Facebook ploughed on – before performing an embarrassing 360 and claiming that it was imposing this policy out of concern for victims. A 360 would be embarrassing as it places you back to the same road. Perhaps it was an "embarrassing 180" instead.

It's actually is one of the rare instances I've seen "do a 360" used appropriately. Facebook revamped their policy around the issue while ending up at exactly the same place: you have to use your real name.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#136

Post by nommm-nommm »

harryf wrote: post #131
nommm-nommm wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No middle school kid is going to get into an R rated movie if they are dropped off and not escorted by and adult at all times.

That's some serious security control you imagine there...

Eh? I wasn't let into R rated movies unaccompanied in high school. Most of the time when we snuck in after buying a ticket to another movie we were caught. They'll come around asking for your tickets during the film if they suspect you are underage or didn't pay or whatever.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#137

Post by r_smart »

fit2rule wrote: post #106
r_smart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has something like 330 million people in it. I assure you, there are a lot of us who see the basic logic around this and think we should stop worrying about the occasional nipple. In this particular instance though, it's worse than your complaint. We're talking about censoring an iconic image captured from an important time in our history. I'd be willing to bet that even among the anti-nipple people, this ima…

>I assure you, there are a lot of us who see the basic logic around this and think we should stop worrying about the occasional nipple. I think the basic problem here is not that there aren't Americans who don't have a problem with seeing a bit of nipple, but that a majority of Americans don't seem to understand that if you censor this kind of thing from people, it makes them a lot more reactive to it when they do in…

So far as I know, sex is used to sell the world over. Growing up, I remember there was a fascination with racy European commercials. Depictions of sex are more normalized there, so the ads just get sexier. Sorta like violence in the US.

>with regard to the way Americans view their wars

It's been a long time, but as I recall, the second invasion of Iraq was the most protested war in the history of our country -- before it even started. While we don't see the full brutal detail, we understand perfectly well what it means.

I'd also add that the American military serves as a proxy not just for American interests, but Western interests. We just get to bear the cost and reputation hit for these things. I don't know where you're writing from obviously, but don't be surprised if your own nation / govt has been complicit in, and benefited from American intervention.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#138

Post by nommm-nommm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #133
nommm-nommm wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No middle school kid is going to get into an R rated movie if they are dropped off and not escorted by and adult at all times.

> No middle school kid is going to get into an R rated movie if they are dropped off and not escorted by and adult. IME, insofar as that is enforced at multiplexes, its enforced mostly at ticket sales and at multiplex entrances, not entrances to individual screening rooms with the complex; tickets are usually not verified at entrances to individual screening rooms except for special circumstances, e.g., opening weeke…

I was replying to "We as a society... drop our middle-school kids off to see violent movies without even thinking twice."

The average parent isn't going to fill their mini van with a bunch of 12 year olds and drop them off with the instructions to sneek into a film that they won't be otherwise allowed into. That hypothetical parent would be shamed on the evening news if caught. That's all I'm saying, not that it was impossible to sneek into an R rated film.

The idea that we "drop our middle-school kids off to see violent movies without even thinking twice" is a complete and total fiction.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#139

Post by covekeyboard »

throwanem wrote: post #31
mark_l_watson wrote: post #17

The FSF has a lot of good material to read on why we don't want centralized control of our data. Applies to Facebook, Google, etc. As a card carrying FSF member (and supporter of EFF, ACLU, Software Conservancy) it embarrases me a little that I probably spend 30 minutes a day using Facebook, Google +, and Twitter; but I enjoy them, I keep the material I produce largely on my own infrastructure, and I work to prevent…

FSF has a lot of problems, too, like an unresolved contradiction in its rhetoric between claimed populism ("everyone can be free!") and evident elitism ("but if you don't choose to act in exactly the way we promote, to hell with you!") I thought hard about joining, but I'm not comfortable with endorsing such a contradictory and self-defeating stance. I don't see why you should be embarrassed to use Facebook et cetera…

Maybe I'm just oblivious to the underlying tone of what I've been reading, or I haven't been reading the right things, but I don't think I've seen the FSF say "to hell with you" or anything similar to people who don't choose to act exactly in the way they promote.

If you have to use Facebook because of the consequences on your social life from not using it, that's understandable, but then there's nothing the FSF can do for you aside from recommending a few addons. This doesn't mean "to hell with you", it literally means "there's nothing we can do for you".

As for Stallman, has he really been showing contempt for users of non-free software? He dislikes proprietary software and actively campaigns against it, and this involves writing about their problems without holding back, but I've never gotten the sense that he has contempt for the users.

Even when he uses the word "useds" to refer to Facebook users, I've never gotten the sense that he has actual contempt for users of Facebook. I get that it can be insulting, but I don't think it was meant that way. It's just Stallman trying to get his point about Facebook across and ending up being abrasive about it.

Also Stallman is not uncompromising. He believes in freedom and is working to maximise it, but along the way he's used non-free software when there were no alternatives (the most recent example being BIOS some number of years ago), has promoted non-strict free licenses in some cases, allowed the LGPL/GPL/AGPL instead of just making everything maximally protected with the AGPL, etc. He compromises a lot less than most on the issue, that's true, but that's because it's literally his mission.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#140

Post by new_hackers »

fit2rule wrote: post #106
r_smart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America has something like 330 million people in it. I assure you, there are a lot of us who see the basic logic around this and think we should stop worrying about the occasional nipple. In this particular instance though, it's worse than your complaint. We're talking about censoring an iconic image captured from an important time in our history. I'd be willing to bet that even among the anti-nipple people, this ima…

>I assure you, there are a lot of us who see the basic logic around this and think we should stop worrying about the occasional nipple. I think the basic problem here is not that there aren't Americans who don't have a problem with seeing a bit of nipple, but that a majority of Americans don't seem to understand that if you censor this kind of thing from people, it makes them a lot more reactive to it when they do in…

Agree. And at the same time Americans have been inundated with "war" and the pro-Nationalist message that we should always, ALWAYS, 1) support our troops no matter what and 2) never forget.

The fear-mongering is rampant and relentless. And everyone is afraid to question it.

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