How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#11

Post by mobiuscog » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

kentor wrote: post #5

fastoptimizer wrote: post #4

When in fact nothing can be blamed but our overconsumption of almost everything but vegetables and fruits. I eat about 70% from my calories in carbs (some are refined), but it's just 2500kcal calories per day. I'm pretty sure the fact that average US citizen eats 3500kcal daily has more to do with anything than what particular ingredient one eats. edit: some irrational unscientific and anegdotal statements require me…

Then the question is why do they eat 3500kcal? The hypothesis is that sugar does not make people feel full whereas fat does, so they eat more. A calorie is not a calorie.

It would seem that calories don't provide any metric with respect to psychological effect, whether caused by the food or otherwise.

If only people had tried to point this out for many years...

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#12

Post by mobiuscog » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

fastoptimizer wrote: post #7

kentor wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the question is why do they eat 3500kcal? The hypothesis is that sugar does not make people feel full whereas fat does, so they eat more. A calorie is not a calorie.

> The hypothesis is that sugar does not make people feel full whereas fat does, so they eat more. They still eat about 1500kcal of fat and protein - of which I eat about half the amount. If you were really talking about feeling full, nothing makes you feel more full than a belly and guts filled with lovely starch/fiber from fruits and vegetables, which an average US eats little if not any.

Depends on the person. I can eat stupid amounts of fruit and vegetables... Low-carb is the only way I can not feel hungry.

Of course, the general population does like their carbs to be the refined type.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#13

Post by timewarrior » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

It took almost 50 years to starting to debunk health issues created by Sugar. It took decades to accept the health issues created by Lead and Asbestos.

Sometime I wonder if chemicals from bottled water, radiation from Cellular/Wifi/Bluetooth pose health risks and we will find it out decades later.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#14

Post by jbb555 » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:31 PM UTC

fastoptimizer wrote: post #4

When in fact nothing can be blamed but our overconsumption of almost everything but vegetables and fruits. I eat about 70% from my calories in carbs (some are refined), but it's just 2500kcal calories per day. I'm pretty sure the fact that average US citizen eats 3500kcal daily has more to do with anything than what particular ingredient one eats. edit: some irrational unscientific and anegdotal statements require me…

I think that fruits have an issue too. The fruit we get today has been bred to contain a lot more sugar than they did originally. I'm not convinced that lots of fruit all the time is as good for you as it ought to be.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#15

Post by agumonkey » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

muzster wrote: post #8

RIP: British Scientist John Yudkin - The man who tried to warn us about the perils of sugar.. Source(s) : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10634081... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Yudkin Edit: Lest we not forget his arch-enemy Ancel Keys

A story every scientist should now. For its own sake.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#16

Post by digi_owl » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

jamroom wrote: post #9

This quote from the article is a great one: "It was a very smart thing the sugar industry did because review papers, especially if you get them published in a very prominent journal, tend to shape the overall scientific discussion" Has the acceptance policy for prominent journals improved that we're sure this is not happening now? I have suspicions that this is likely still happening more frequently then we might exp…

The basic issue is that reviews are just looking for glaring problems in the presentation. To really test an article one has to replicate the experiment from the ground up. And these days thats damn hard and expensive to do.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#17

Post by timewarrior » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

amist wrote: post #3

What about the fat industry? Didn't they have enough money to pay for scientists to shift the blame to sugar?

Fat based foods are pricier vs sugar based. Given limited household budget for food, margins tend to be lower on Fat based products.

And you can eat a lot more sugar based food vs fat based food on per food weight basis.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#18

Post by redwards510 » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:34 PM UTC

The documentary "Fed Up" is about sugar and was the first time I was made aware there is no daily RDA % for sugar on nutrition labels. They just have the grams. They lobbied very hard to make it that way, because having "4700%" for a daily RDA wouldn't look very good!

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#19

Post by oxryly1 » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:34 PM UTC

timewarrior wrote: post #13

It took almost 50 years to starting to debunk health issues created by Sugar. It took decades to accept the health issues created by Lead and Asbestos. Sometime I wonder if chemicals from bottled water, radiation from Cellular/Wifi/Bluetooth pose health risks and we will find it out decades later.

True. And until then if you resist such things you're labelled as a crank, luddite, anti-science, etc. etc.

Re: How the Sugar Industry Shifted Blame to Fat

#20

Post by jly » Mon, Sep 12, 2016, 4:35 PM UTC

I think after the last few years of these kinds of things coming out, the takeaway is pretty simple: be fairly sceptical of 'advice' coming out of large governing bodies and instead just be sensible.

Don't eat too much food. Limit processed foods. Eat lots of fruit and vegetables. Eat a large variety of foods. Be active.

These rudimentary guidelines are clearly difficult for a lot of people to follow, but I think it's pretty easy to avoid negative diet effects by just doing what most people intuitively know as the right thing, even if we consume some of all types of food. It seems to me this is more about self-control and effort level than any scientific knowledge, at this point.