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Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#31

Post by throwanem »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #17

The FSF has a lot of good material to read on why we don't want centralized control of our data. Applies to Facebook, Google, etc. As a card carrying FSF member (and supporter of EFF, ACLU, Software Conservancy) it embarrases me a little that I probably spend 30 minutes a day using Facebook, Google +, and Twitter; but I enjoy them, I keep the material I produce largely on my own infrastructure, and I work to prevent…

FSF has a lot of problems, too, like an unresolved contradiction in its rhetoric between claimed populism ("everyone can be free!") and evident elitism ("but if you don't choose to act in exactly the way we promote, to hell with you!") I thought hard about joining, but I'm not comfortable with endorsing such a contradictory and self-defeating stance.

I don't see why you should be embarrassed to use Facebook et cetera. As I've discovered to my personal cost, there can easily be very real social consequences for opting out of these services, Facebook especially. I think you'd have to be Richard Stallman to blame someone for choosing not to suffer those consequences over a point of principle. And I don't think very highly of him for so doing, given the nomadic and largely asocial sort of life he's chosen. That such a life suits him is clear, and he's welcome to it, of course. But his judgment of those who find it not so easy to make the same choice is harshly contemptuous and utterly lacking in nuance, and I find that impossible to respect.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#32

Post by throwanem »

dominotw wrote: post #23
stephenr wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's time to treat Facebook as the cancerous turd on society that it is.

I think you might have cause and effect reversed. Turd of a society created facebook.

I think you're both being somewhat overheated in your rhetoric, in a way that's likely to be less helpful than otherwise. Perhaps a bit more restraint might be of value? But of course that's your decision to make.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#33

Post by jimmytidey »

sp332 wrote: post #3
shiftpgdn wrote: post #2

If you don't like Facebook's actions then don't use it. Having open speech on Facebook's platform is not an inalienable right. I don't agree with Facebook's privacy policies and thus have deleted my account and use other platforms. This isn't difficult. This article is tantamount to saying "Woe is me, NYT won't publish my op-ed." and expecting anyone to take you seriously.

I don't think this is a given. When Facebook is many people's main communications platform and source of news, censoring Facebook is, effectively, censoring communication and news. Since they have such power to affect our societies, they should have some obligations.

I completely agree with the above. The idea that society should accept that it has no control over the design of a major artery of communication is not sensible.

With print media, TV, phone and post, all developed countries have special regulations that ensure these (often privately run) services align with values of democracy (with varying effectiveness).

I think the ideal solution would be to compel Facebook to make its architecture more open. For it to have real APIs, which, among other things, would allow other companies to transition users from Facebook effectively and seamlessly.

This is analogous to the reasoning that says that banks cannot make it unreasonably difficult to switch to another bank by creating admin around direct debits and the like (rules currently being implemented in the UK).

Facebook can engage in whatever kind of censorship it likes as long as the barriers to leaving it are sufficiently low that we can realistically imagine users doing so.

(Unfortunately FB is not a formal monopoly because it's free to users.. so we absolutely do need new legislation).

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#34

Post by 20yrs_no_equity »

I'm not a fan of Facebook so this is great news. The more they manipulate the platform and undermine its objectivity and freedom, the less people will trust it. And while the reasons they shouldn't trust it - namely privacy- are not directly related to these actions, Facebooks attempts to control people like this will make them aware of its untrustworthiness.

TBH this is an area very prime for disruption, the "next Facebook" is right around the corner, but it will bear less relationship to The Facebook than The Facebook did to Myspace.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#35

Post by sp332 »

equalarrow wrote: post #18

I don't get why this is such an issue. I understand the sheer numbers of people that use fb and get their 'news' from it, but it amazes me that people are shocked that fb censors the content. Facebook never claimed to be a news organization nor part of the 5th estate (which, pretty much doesn't exist). So that being the case, I would never expect fb to be a partner for democracy. Just because some recent revolutions…

They were pretty loud about being a source of news. Don't forget the Paper app they cancelled. They even encourage news sources to host their articles on Facebook. https://media.fb.com/2015/05/12/instantarticles/

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#36

Post by dmix »

equalarrow wrote: post #18

I don't get why this is such an issue. I understand the sheer numbers of people that use fb and get their 'news' from it, but it amazes me that people are shocked that fb censors the content. Facebook never claimed to be a news organization nor part of the 5th estate (which, pretty much doesn't exist). So that being the case, I would never expect fb to be a partner for democracy. Just because some recent revolutions…

Free speech rights are limited to government intervention, for good reason. The only question from a free-market perspective is whether or not Facebook has provided the tools to self-censor the content you get in your social network, much like HN where you can downvote/flag content that is inappropriate or of questionable quality [1]. That would downplay the monopolistic side effects of not having a competitor to go to if you're not happy with Facebook's strict censoring rules.

[1] I should note Facebook already does provide lots of ways to filter people from your feed without unfriending them if you don't like what they post.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#37

Post by antirez »

The United States are a great country, but in the topic of censorship, balanced politically correctness and easy to speak about all the topics, I believe that the old Europe has very interesting things to say, so I'm also a bit worried that the technological leadership of US may have an effect on what is believed to be sensible to discuss / post in Europe too. I hope is the other way, that is, we european can in some way mitigate certain extreme positions I see in the US regarding what is appropriate or not.

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#38

Post by austinheap »

jimmytidey wrote: post #33
sp332 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is a given. When Facebook is many people's main communications platform and source of news, censoring Facebook is, effectively, censoring communication and news. Since they have such power to affect our societies, they should have some obligations.

I completely agree with the above. The idea that society should accept that it has no control over the design of a major artery of communication is not sensible. With print media, TV, phone and post, all developed countries have special regulations that ensure these (often privately run) services align with values of democracy (with varying effectiveness). I think the ideal solution would be to compel Facebook to mak…

You can download an archive of your Facebook data already. What "real APIs" would you like the government to "compel" this private corporation to add?

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#39

Post by danjoc »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #2

If you don't like Facebook's actions then don't use it. Having open speech on Facebook's platform is not an inalienable right. I don't agree with Facebook's privacy policies and thus have deleted my account and use other platforms. This isn't difficult. This article is tantamount to saying "Woe is me, NYT won't publish my op-ed." and expecting anyone to take you seriously.

>If you don't like Facebook's actions then don't use it.

In other words, "You're free to speak, as long as no one can hear you." Nice bait. Look at all your replies.

>Having open speech on Facebook's platform is not an inalienable right.

So long as the government ensures that Facebook is the only platform via patent/copyright/trademark enforcement, I beg to differ. When I can build a Facebook clone of my own and not be sued out of existence for it [1], then you have a valid point. Until then, Facebook isn't greatly different from VKontakte or Renren.

[1]http://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-sues-german-rival/

Re: Facebook is imposing American censorship on the rest of the world

#40

Post by mark_l_watson »

dmix wrote: post #26
mark_l_watson wrote: post #17

The FSF has a lot of good material to read on why we don't want centralized control of our data. Applies to Facebook, Google, etc. As a card carrying FSF member (and supporter of EFF, ACLU, Software Conservancy) it embarrases me a little that I probably spend 30 minutes a day using Facebook, Google +, and Twitter; but I enjoy them, I keep the material I produce largely on my own infrastructure, and I work to prevent…

Why can't your friend be responsible for not posting violent pictures? Otherwise a) you confront the person politely telling them why you think it was inappropriate or b) unfriend/mute them. Reddit uses a NSFW filter over videos that you have to click through to see the video first... that would also be up to the user to mark as NSFW... or you unfriend them. Or even a downvote button is community-based. The reason he…

I agree with you. Best to ask people I know to not post shit like that, and minimize censorship at the platform level.
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