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I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

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Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#331

Post by elptacek »

fecak wrote: post #163
tptacek wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really interesting! Our experience was: we didn't need to do any outbound sales work at all (our entire client base was cold inbounds), and we could close a contract with 1-2 phone calls. Our referrals I think with 1 exception? all got interviews. But we're sourcing non-traditional candidates, and the --- you know what, I'm getting ahead of myself on a blog post I'm still tuning up. In any case, that might exp…

The outbound sourcing work is the worst part without doubt, but the game took care of that for you. That, and the fact that it was backed by people with good industry names, was the beauty of Starfighter. I told Patrick that you already had the two hardest parts covered - engaging with qualified candidates and establishing credibility. You also had cred with the hiring folks, so that was taken care of as well - hirin…

Talking to every candidate (the ones that were loosely designated as 'mine') turned out to be my most favorite part of this whole deal. In some ways, even better than having an opportunity to write an AVR emulator. These guys are smart and they have interesting stories, and the enthusiasm they expressed for what they wanted out of their careers plucked my mom strings pretty hard.

I always knew that if we continued to grow, that this part would go away, but I would have struggled to keep this going as long as I could. Even if it meant less serious $. It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect that had we grown to the point where hiring "actual recruiters," it would have been impossible to find ones with the same mindset.

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#332

Post by elptacek »

firebones wrote: post #223
tom_b wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thomas, were many starfighters you referred not getting offers? I love the idea of a (properly scoped) project/challenge in the hiring process and find myself profoundly worried when no code gets discussed in tech interviews. I also really enjoyed stockfighter challenges. Between those six and my university's copy of Harris' Trading and Exchanges, I learned quite a bit. I bailed out on the AVR challenges though. From…

I wonder whether there was some element of "those who have an inclination and ability to complete Starfighter may be insanely qualified from one set of screening criteria, but not from the criteria that resonates with people hiring employees". In other words, maybe it turned out to be a better filter for self-starters who might be nascent entrepreneurs (reflecting the founders who created it), but sometimes those cha…

There was no element of that. The frustration was mostly 'the client's hiring process is a mess.' On our part, the one piece of work we needed to do to sell Starfighter better was to write some 'accessible prose' on 'the practical applications of having cleared level six' -- this should have been more of a priority, and it wasn't. I can look back and see the opportunity I had to do it, myself, and am bummed that I didn't get it done. Lesson learned; it will be part of every challenge we release going forward.

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#333

Post by elptacek »

jjguy wrote: post #250
tptacek wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so cool. I'd love to swap notes sometime; as you know, I did pretty much the same thing for Matasano, which is why we started this company. I am still totally sold on challenges and hiring! That's still what I'm doing! We're just changing the business model.

It's clear tech recruiting needs disrupting. We're still too dominated by traditional procedures that provide poor results. Folks with our background know in our guts this CTF-style thing has potential, we've just got to work out how to make it sustainable. Would love to swap notes sometime. My wife is angling for an excuse to visit Chicago, but seeing as how winter's coming maybe y'all should visit Austin!

If you take us to Black's and pick up the tab, I'm there next week.

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#334

Post by fecak »

elptacek wrote: post #331
fecak wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The outbound sourcing work is the worst part without doubt, but the game took care of that for you. That, and the fact that it was backed by people with good industry names, was the beauty of Starfighter. I told Patrick that you already had the two hardest parts covered - engaging with qualified candidates and establishing credibility. You also had cred with the hiring folks, so that was taken care of as well - hirin…

Talking to every candidate (the ones that were loosely designated as 'mine') turned out to be my most favorite part of this whole deal. In some ways, even better than having an opportunity to write an AVR emulator. These guys are smart and they have interesting stories, and the enthusiasm they expressed for what they wanted out of their careers plucked my mom strings pretty hard. I always knew that if we continued to…

Not impossible, but you'd be looking for the same caliber of recruiter as you were looking for engineers. Perhaps even more rare.

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#335

Post by prawn »

thr0waway1239 wrote: post #236

I really like Patrick's work, and I have learnt a lot from it. I wish him the best for his employment at Stripe. But I am going to ask all of you to tread carefully when taking advice from well-intentioned experts. Over a period of 9 or so years, Patrick went from expressing opinions about a) why desktop software is still viable b) why web based is a better option than desktop because desktop causes too many pains c)…

That was my first thought too - a very human journey covered with very bold statements at each point. Unless I misread something, you forgot the step where consulting (weekly granularity rather than daily or hourly) was absolute king. I remember reading that and thinking "Wait, what about the SAAS thing?"

I guess the takeaway is that no option is without its disadvantages.

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#336

Post by dood »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #292
new299 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a business bank account is also trivial and you can do it over the phone. Pretty awesome.

As in a useable account? IIRC in the UK we had to show birth certs, drivers licence, have an interview, present a business plan, sign several lots of dead tree, provide details of other finances ... just to get a deposit account.

Yes, I did it this year, over the phone, ready to use same day.

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#337

Post by dood »

peteretep wrote: post #287
new299 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting a business bank account is also trivial and you can do it over the phone. Pretty awesome.

Really? 2.5 years ago still involved going to a bank, signing in blood, and several hours. Most complicated past of the process, would be good to hear it had changed

It depends on the bank I think, some are still doing it that way but others you can set up over the phone no problem.

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#338

Post by rev_bird »

tptacek wrote: post #227
rev_bird wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liability protection, if nothing else. If someone sues a company, they can't (in theory) take the CEO's house. Also, in the US, you can save a bunch of money on payroll taxes if you elect to be taxed as an S-corp. The short version is that you only pay those taxes (Social Security, FICA, Medicare, etc etc) on money you get in paychecks -- so, if you make $100k in a year and "pay" yourself $70k, you end up with the ot…

It's probably not a good idea to try to "save money" on your taxes by claiming a low income and distributing yourself whatever's on the balance sheet later on; it's apparently a notorious audit flag. Respectfully: it's also unethical, if you think about it carefully. Pay full freight on your payroll taxes: if you make so much much money that this dodge is material to you, you're the last person who should have a loop…

I'm way late on this, but I've been thinking a lot about it, and I'm particularly interested in this debate with someone whose opinion I respect a lot.

Regarding your first paragraph, I'd agree that "claiming a low income" is a bad idea, and not just because it's illegal. Regarding the audit business, my accountant seems pretty confident that a straightforward tax return without too much any weirdness (real estate, huge equipment costs, etc.) is fairly safe from auditing, if I'm paid a salary that a software developer in my position might expect to make.

Regarding your second, more important paragraph: I'm pretty sure I disagree about it being unethical. I think the tax code is depressingly regressive, and I'd legitimately feel like I'd shirked a duty if I just ducked out on money I should have paid. I believe in the power of government, and having the money to back it up is important.

That said, the government decides what's taxable, and which actions should be incentivized. There are plenty of breaks that I probably "shouldn't have": Why do I get to pay less tax because I own a home, or because I got married? Why, as a "small business owner," can I deduct the cost of my insurance premiums, but employees can't? It seems silly, but I'm certainly not going to file at the single rate instead of the married one.

There are years and years of precedent about S-corporations paying shareholder-employees;[0] the "reasonable" salary bit comes up every time. The mental model I've been using has been: How much of this money am I making because I'm a developer, and how much is here because I run my own business? If my annual salary would be, say, $110,000 as a W-2 employee at some big company, but as a contractor I can bill $180,000 a year, I'd say the business grossed $70,000 farming out the work of a $110,000 programmer. To a certain kind of shop, working as a contractor is a valuable service: Companies don't have to go through the hassle of dealing with an employee, only a purchase order. Still, SOMEBODY has to deal with that hassle: Now, though, it's me.

[0] https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe...

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#339

Post by flipchart »

PerfectElement wrote: post #315
antoinevg wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our situation is quite complex but the tl;dr is: We were already incorporated in SA but we also needed to be incorporated in the USA if we wanted to keep serving our customers.

I'm incorporated in Canada and serve many US customers. It's a SaaS and most customers don't even know or care that we are not in the US. I guess it varies depending on the type of business you are in.

For South Africans it's more complex: we literally are not (legally) allowed to charge in any currency except ZAR (our local currency). When you're a small bootstrapped startup on the bottom of the world, charging in a relatively unknown currency doesn't sit well with international customers

Re: I’m Joining Stripe to Work on Atlas

#340

Post by peteretep »

kingofspain wrote: post #307
peteretep wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? 2.5 years ago still involved going to a bank, signing in blood, and several hours. Most complicated past of the process, would be good to hear it had changed

I started a Ltd a couple of months ago and applied online for a Santander business account, I had my card and account set up within 7 days or so (I was away from home so it could've been quicker). I got a company credit card 2(!) days after applying online to Barclays. No phone calls, no visits to a branch for either.

Interesting. I switched to Barclays for my personal accounts, and they seem unusually tech savvy.
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