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Startup employees don't earn more

80000hours.org

131–140 of 162 posts

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like everyone forgot what happen after 2000. I hope you are saving your money.

Implying someone with skills and a proactive attitude woulnd't be able to get a job or freelance? The world is moving every day towards tech based solutions. If you can find a process to automate/improve and can sell yourself, you shouldn't have a problem.

This doesn't work when 100k other people with the same attributes are laid off in your city.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#132
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has anyone you tried to recruit walk away because you mentioned the 40hr/week expectation? Why would they? Are you imagining somebody who only wants to be part of a team that's overworked?

In the book Chaos Monkey [1], Antonio Garcia Martinez writes: I recall very little from the interviews, except a comment from one of the DabbleDB engineers. After getting through the stress questions, I asked him, "So what do you like most about Twitter?" By this point, we'd build a decent rapport, so with a nod and a wink, he said, "Well, you know, in companies like Facebook and Google, they serve you breakfast, lun…

This mode of thinking is apparently common, and yet so alien to me... When you're 80 looking back, are you really going to wish you'd put in more hours making Dorsey or Brin & Page or whoever more money? At the expense of your own life beyond a company which doesn't and never will care about you except as a replaceable factor of production?

[Dear any future employers who've bothered to de-anonymize me off Hacker News: Just kidding! I'm all about long hours and have no interests or loved ones outside of working for you!]

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#133
To be honest, I don't think startup employees (and by startups I don't mean Dropbox, I mean companies who have to count the cash they spend) are low paid. Obviously a startup can't pay like a company with tons of cash can. In tech and everywhere else. I like working at small companies because you get to do more things, because of the atmosphere, small team, agility, lack of bureaucracy, etc. Where I do think startup employees are getting absolutely screwed, specially in the US, is in the working hours. As an employee, you don't have founder shares. You should just be able to work your 9-5 hours and call it a day. If the founders think there's more work to be done, they can either prioritize better, hire more people, do it themselves, or just accept that not everything they want to do can be done with the resources they have. Period.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#134
Uh, taking the average equity granted and multiplying by the average value of equity is flawed on so many levels.

If there's any correlation between equity granted and value, that analysis fails. Also, the average company value needs to be weighted by number of employees. Chances are if you take that average you'll get a higher number.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#135

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

Here is somebody who agrees with you. The presentation (boo author) is not earth-shattering but still interesting enough (watch at 1.5 times speed). You don't need to accept everything, just take it as an interesting personal report based on his unique experiences. I think I even found this video here on HN just a few days ago.

I think the video is especially valuable to young people getting started in SV, those older and/or with experience may still find it interesting but gain usable insights.

"Inside the Tech Start-up Bubble | Dan Lyons | RSA Replay"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO836hHCmZA

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#136

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

And what happens when the postal service gets opened up to competition /privatized as happened to the Royal mail

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#137
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it depends on what you're trying to achieve. There are legitimate reasons to try to achieve the highest possible pay per year, no matter how many hours in the year you have to work in order to get it. In the case of 80000 hours, the goal is to donate as much money to charity as possible, and, if I may put it somewhat crudely, they would prefer you work as much as possible, only stopping work in order to eat and…

Completely disagree. Even if you're maximizing for donations, any reasonable analysis would still have to privilege your own well-being as a giver. Lowering your burnout/regression rate from 25% to 5% by giving yourself a higher quality of life seems like one of the best investments you can make. You don't need to expend wads of cash. But you don't need to be destitute as a software engineer to give effectively.

And you should give out of income not capital - you donate capital in your will.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#138

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

Is there any chance of a systemic failure that would affect the entire economy caused by Silicon Valley? I am not talking about some shares losing value but with the Credit Crunch, we had thousands of average Joes in above their head in debt which couldn't be refinanced while the value of their home crashed.

Yes. The NASDAQ meltdown in the dotcom crash affected everything. Arguably the economy never recovered, and just papered over it with a housing bubble instead.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#139

As others have posted, people don't go to small startups to earn more on average. They're not looking at the average or median, they're looking at the 99%ile numbers, because they think the startup they picked has an angle or advantage, giving it a shot at a 99%ile exit. 80000hours' audience is clever enough to understand cumulative distribution functions or even just correlated sets of [25%ile, median, 75%ile, 90%il…

I've always thought that historically engineers cared more about working on things they had more emotional investment in rather than working on things they had no passion for that makes money as an established business like ad tech or dog dating social networks.

In recent years I think that too might make big companies more attractive. Companies like Google are solving a lot of interesting technical challenges, and produce interesting software (even some open-source) like Kubernetes and deep-learning frameworks. And there are many jobs you can have there there are purely about solving those tech challenges (the business side is someone else's job). While a lot of startups are less about tech and more about specific business plays, "AirBnB for x" or "Uber for x". Which, yes, to be an AirBnB-for-X you do need some tech, like a website and payment processing system, but the real innovation at these startups (in cases where there is any) is around business models, not technology, while the technology is relatively pedestrian.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Demand for good developers is extremely high in the US. Which is why salaries are so high.

How can one tell if they are a good developer or not? It's about one-for-one that whenever I read a statement that demand is high I recall a story (even some posted on HN) of someone struggling to find work and vice-versa. Is the demand at a historical high or presently higher than other industries, but still cannot keep up with the supply? Or are only a fraction of those job seekers good?

Combination of the two: Also folks aren't "good" or "bad" but rather able to add value in different circumstances. Some may be able to add more value in a more structured development environment where a mentor helps guide their every step. Others may strive in a green field situation where they can really build the "whole thing" themselves. Both of these modes have their costs in the near and long-term with the latter potentially harder to scale to other developers after the fact, but at the time appearing impressive. The former means continuity in the organization but some individuals will grow less in this model. And of course there are a million other models. Everyone thrives differently.
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