Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Startup employees don't earn more

80000hours.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 162 posts

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#101

Post by brightsize »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #77
dohoho wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I worked in government as an engineer before I moved to a startup doing something completely different. If you're ok with being a slave and fighting the very people you're working for to get the benefits you need to live a decent life then yeah government work is for you. That mindset that we're in a tech bubble is what I was worried about when I took on a city position but it's just fear. I thought it would hap…

Yeah but govt jobs pay a pension. Its the largest fraction of the federal budget. That doesn't happen in Silicon Valley.

My dad retired at 55, in the early 80s, with 25 years of service as a mail carrier. It was a secure and respected job, at least at the time. He's received a pension check every single month since then and has full medical coverage for life. I don't think that happens anywhere any more. Maybe the military, but there are certain downsides to that career.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#102

Post by jwatte »

phamilton wrote: post #16
zachsnow wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that while I agree that the marginal value decreases I also feel (literally feel ) that somehow having say an order of magnitude more would somehow be qualitatively different (and better). Funny to see my own biases play tricks (?) on me!

I think one could define a metric in which average result is higher for startup employees than for BigCo employees. Someone with $100M has access to politics/investments/etc that most people earning $250k/yr don't. So while the average monetary payout is smaller (1% chance at $100M is equal to a 50% chance at 2M), average social currency is much higher. (1% chance at the social power that comes with $100M vs 0% chanc…

You'll only make $100M of you're a founder of one of the very few really large, successful companies. It's a 1 in 10,000 chance or worse, not 1 in 10. (And mean value of $100M at 0.01% right now is only $10k)

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#103

Post by mbesto »

elliotec wrote: post #11
isoos wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to see what the expected outcome's distribution is with buying lottery tickets for $X/month vs. doing a startup (and potentially earn less by $X/month than one could have had at a larger corporation).

Interesting. If I spent 20% of my salary on lottery tickets, how good would my chances be of winning vs cashing in my stock at a startup that goes public in which I made 20% less salary? And what would the payout differences be?

More interesting would be to take the delta between a startup salary and a Google salary and invest it in SV real estate. I'd easily bet real estate would net higher returns.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#104

Post by Chronic9q »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #86
WhitneyLand wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why be a postal carrier with your skills when the average salary seems to be so much less (40-50k) than you could make? Forget SV you could work remote from any inexpensive place in the country, or just park a camper near a national park and live the dream.

Because some people enjoy being postal carriers?

Ask any postal carrier if they would take a job that paid $20K more. I guarantee they will say yes. Stop thinking everyone is happy with their job because they have "a good life." Money still rules this world. Why else do people spend 8-10 hours a day trying to make money?

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#105

Post by Hytosys »

tdb7893 wrote: post #52
danielrm26 wrote: post #2

This will surprise nobody on Hacker News. The allure of startups isn't a guaranteed 20% more than a regular company's salary; it's the possibility of 1000% more.

How many engineers get 1000% more? I thought it was the founders and investors that got more.

Yep, you're right. There's a belligerent, Randian dream behind that 1000% nonsense that always seems to be accompanied by some far-fetched narrative of climbing the ladder.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#106

Post by danudey »

Chronic9q wrote: post #104
nommm-nommm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some people enjoy being postal carriers?

Ask any postal carrier if they would take a job that paid $20K more. I guarantee they will say yes. Stop thinking everyone is happy with their job because they have "a good life." Money still rules this world. Why else do people spend 8-10 hours a day trying to make money?

Stop thinking that making more money is the only thing that would make people happy, or that making enough to live on and be comfortable isn't enough for anyone.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#107

Post by snoman »

Chronic9q wrote: post #104
nommm-nommm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some people enjoy being postal carriers?

Ask any postal carrier if they would take a job that paid $20K more. I guarantee they will say yes. Stop thinking everyone is happy with their job because they have "a good life." Money still rules this world. Why else do people spend 8-10 hours a day trying to make money?

> Money still rules this world

Probably says more about you than it does the people you're talking about.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#108

Post by danudey »

h4pless wrote: post #65
eschutte2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested to know more about this part: > have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave

When you're responsible for everything, the weight of the world is on your shoulders at all times. When you're a cog in an accepted system, you aren't singled our for your inefficiencies . Perhaps less gratitude for being a baller, but a lot more comfort in knowing you aren't going to be wrongfully terminated because the CEO has a personality disorder.

My wife spent years working for our local transit company, starting in the call centre (at a startlingly high wage for a call centre) and moving to other departments (scheduling, etc.)

I really envy her ability to leave work at 5 PM (or whatever her shift's 5 PM is) and not have to think about work until 9 AM the next day. I'm always 'on', always thinking about the next problem or outage or project, and frankly it's exhausting. If she calls in sick, they call in someone else to cover for her. There's no wondering 'will this get done' or 'what if...'. She never books a day off and then ends up having to work that day anyway.

Add to that that she's working a union job and getting a pension. She's got four weeks of vacation now, five or six years in, and it's only going to go up (her mother had months every year by the end). She's guaranteed raises based on how long she works there, and if she's qualified for another position and she's the most senior person then she'll get it (rather than having to kiss the boss's ass, or 'sorry we can't do without you in your current position'). Her pension is based on her 'best five years', so if, down the road, she does five years in operations, in a stressful, difficult, and frustrating job, she can then hop back out and do something simple until she retires.

There are no highs or lows in bus driver scheduling like when a server goes down and you're losing thousands of dollars an hour, but honestly, when a server goes down and we're losing thousands of dollars an hour, that sounds pretty good to me sometimes.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#109

Post by Pyxl101 »

segmondy wrote: post #54
bunkydoo wrote: post #24

I'm gonna be straight with y'all, I earn more as a post office mail carrier than I ever did as a programmer for a silicon valley startup with $1 million dollars seed funding. I also surprisingly have more freedom even though I work basically like a slave. Nobody wants to admit it but we are in a tech bubble. Sure, if you are in the right startup things might be different. I had a great valley experience - but it was…

Wow, someone gives a company $1million and you claim that the person is playing with dreams, time and skills? Give us a break. No startup has to accept investor money. If you don't want their million, don't take it. Bootstrap with your own cash. The reality is that going into startup for money is a big risk, it's a big gamble. Go in for the fun, go in to learn new things, play with new tech, go in to avoid ( big comp…

> Do it for the for the fun and if you make money great, if you don't, you come out with new experience. Long before fullstack became a buzz word, I earned my badges due to startup. I coded, I did design, I touched the DB, I setup the servers, wired the network, setup the firewalls. It was hella fun, I made $0. But my experiences from then still serves me till this very day.

You can have these experiences at a large tech company too, while also being paid well and while collaborating with experienced people who can teach you a lot.

Re: Startup employees don't earn more

#110

Post by FabHK »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #77
dohoho wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, I worked in government as an engineer before I moved to a startup doing something completely different. If you're ok with being a slave and fighting the very people you're working for to get the benefits you need to live a decent life then yeah government work is for you. That mindset that we're in a tech bubble is what I was worried about when I took on a city position but it's just fear. I thought it would hap…

Yeah but govt jobs pay a pension. Its the largest fraction of the federal budget. That doesn't happen in Silicon Valley.

This is hugely important. With rates as low as they are, a 2000$ pension per month, particularly if tied to inflation, can be worth $1m.
Post reply on HN