The careless errors of credit reporting agencies • Hacker News Board

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#201

Post by sithadmin » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

chipperyman573 wrote: post #184

popmystack wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Citi gave me a credit card with a $3,000 limit as a college freshmen. How old are you? Just a few years ago, despite making a very decent amount of money and having no marks on my credit, it took an entire year for me to get a credit card. Reason: lack of credit history. A lot of people have similar stories. >This depends on your definitions a little bit. The part where you spend money that isn't yours and then pay…

>Prevent landlords from pulling credit history. Your finances are not their business. I disagree, if you have a terrible credit history, leasing to you may be very risky. They aren't loaning you money, but they are trusting that you will have the money every month to pay them with.

>They aren't loaning you money, but they are trusting that you will have the money every month to pay them with.

Even more importantly than that: the lessor gives the lessee custody and (limited) care-taking responsibilities over what, in most cases, represents a significant investment of capital.

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#202

Post by sithadmin » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:13 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #197

ThomPete wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You and your parents history in the US in general can have a an affect on whether you can convince a bank to give you a credit card or not not on the credit score. I am not talking about credit card history but about history of being a US citizen, having a bank account etc. I think a lot here are missing the point. The question is not about your credit score but about getting the credit card to begin with. Once you g…

Ok, here is the thing. Your parents credit score doesn't affect yours. At all. IT doesn't help you get a credit card, nor bank accounts. Unless: Someone has them cosign for a loan or credit card. This is somewhat common with a first car loan or some student loans, but less common with credit cards. They won't be able to do that if they have a low score. Otherwise, you are basically on your own. The credit stuff you w…

>Your parents credit score doesn't affect yours. At all. IT doesn't help you get a credit card, nor bank accounts.

Perhaps one's parents can't help in any formal way, but for me, my parents' creditworthiness and relationship with a local bank helped get me my first credit card.

Right before I left home for college, I applied for a credit card with my local bank, and was initially declined. When I asked for reconsideration by the branch manager, he looked into the situation and indicated that he couldn't do anything to assist.

When my mother found out I was declined, she took me back to the branch, and asked the branch manger to reconsider the credit decision. Upon a review of my parents' standing with the bank, the branch manager overrode the previous decision and I was given a Visa card with a moderate ($1000 USD) limit. My mother wasn't even asked to co-sign on the account, provide any kind of guarantee, or be associated with the credit card in any way.

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#203

Post by makmanalp » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:20 PM UTC

popmystack wrote: post #155

superuser2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you are trusted by definition I felt pretty "trusted by definition." Citi gave me a credit card with a $3,000 limit as a college freshmen. A few years later I had an $8,000 limit card and a $10,000 limit card. I bought my car certified-pre-owned under a program that writes favorable low-cost loans to recent college graduates with no or limited credit history (with an offer letter or paystubs). You just aren't truste…

>Citi gave me a credit card with a $3,000 limit as a college freshmen. How old are you? Just a few years ago, despite making a very decent amount of money and having no marks on my credit, it took an entire year for me to get a credit card. Reason: lack of credit history. A lot of people have similar stories. >This depends on your definitions a little bit. The part where you spend money that isn't yours and then pay…

> Prevent landlords from pulling credit history.

I never understood this - why is someone else asking for your credit history a ding on your credit report? It seems really silly to me, but I must be missing something.

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#204

Post by ezequiel-garzon » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:24 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #83

The US is as far as I know the only country in the world who have a positive creditscore system. At least in Europe it's mostly based on a negative creditscore i.e. you are trusted by definition but if you don't pay your bills you end up not being allowed access to credit. In the US they don't trust you per definition and instead you have to prove that you are good with money by basically creating debt and then payin…

I don't know... As a foreign student I was for some reason given some positive credit score. That was surprising enough, but not as surprising as having my credit limit raised very liberally every time I reached it. I can tell you that doesn't happen in Spain at least (and seems in reality more sensible).

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#205

Post by popmystack » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:31 PM UTC

chipperyman573 wrote: post #184

popmystack wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Citi gave me a credit card with a $3,000 limit as a college freshmen. How old are you? Just a few years ago, despite making a very decent amount of money and having no marks on my credit, it took an entire year for me to get a credit card. Reason: lack of credit history. A lot of people have similar stories. >This depends on your definitions a little bit. The part where you spend money that isn't yours and then pay…

>Prevent landlords from pulling credit history. Your finances are not their business. I disagree, if you have a terrible credit history, leasing to you may be very risky. They aren't loaning you money, but they are trusting that you will have the money every month to pay them with.

Then they should be forced to positively report that you are agreeing to the terms of your lease. It shouldn't be a one way street. Right now, there is nothing for most land lords to really see on credit reports except for seriously cases of rental delinquency (evictions will show up, but these are outstandingly rare). You get dinged for them looking at what will largely be irrelevant information to your landlord. How I manage my credit cards has no correlation to how I've how honored my apartment leases. It makes no sense for someone to deny you a place to live because of other outstanding debts, often these debts do not even follow the same financial contracts or have the same importance in many people's lives.

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#206

Post by hanoz » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:39 PM UTC

sithadmin wrote: post #201

chipperyman573 wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Prevent landlords from pulling credit history. Your finances are not their business. I disagree, if you have a terrible credit history, leasing to you may be very risky. They aren't loaning you money, but they are trusting that you will have the money every month to pay them with.

>They aren't loaning you money, but they are trusting that you will have the money every month to pay them with. Even more importantly than that: the lessor gives the lessee custody and (limited) care-taking responsibilities over what, in most cases, represents a significant investment of capital.

Far more importantly than that: the landlord, usually morgaged, is making a tenuous claim of ownership of the tenant's home. If the landlord does not keep up with his payments the tenant and his family face the prospect of disruption and upheaval of far greater import than any monentey shortfall the landlord might risk. Therefore the tenant has by far the greater claim to an assurance of the landlord's credit worthiness than vice versa.

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#207

Post by popmystack » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:47 PM UTC

chipperyman573 wrote: post #184

popmystack wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Citi gave me a credit card with a $3,000 limit as a college freshmen. How old are you? Just a few years ago, despite making a very decent amount of money and having no marks on my credit, it took an entire year for me to get a credit card. Reason: lack of credit history. A lot of people have similar stories. >This depends on your definitions a little bit. The part where you spend money that isn't yours and then pay…

>Prevent landlords from pulling credit history. Your finances are not their business. I disagree, if you have a terrible credit history, leasing to you may be very risky. They aren't loaning you money, but they are trusting that you will have the money every month to pay them with.

I've responded to similar sentiments in another comment within this thread, but just to note you misquoted me. I am not sure if that was intentional or not.

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#208

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

superuser2 wrote: post #186

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need .gov smartcards. Or at least a .gov OAuth provider. That's not really a good solution either, though, because that requires trust in an essentially unverifiable system and the entity producing it. > banks should be shipping hardware tokens, for example. No, they absolutely should not. That's like saying banks should send out staff to take care of signing stuff for their customers, and then insisting that th…

What do you propose?

I'm not sure I really propose anything, it's a hard problem. Maybe a more decentralized web-of-trust like identity system would be a good long-term goal?

As for authenticating orders to your bank: You should be able to use any compatible product/software you like to sign orders to your bank with your private key. The bank should not have the ability to fake orders to themselves (see also the Wells-Fargo fiasco).

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#209

Post by waqf » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 9:58 PM UTC

makmanalp wrote: post #203

popmystack wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Citi gave me a credit card with a $3,000 limit as a college freshmen. How old are you? Just a few years ago, despite making a very decent amount of money and having no marks on my credit, it took an entire year for me to get a credit card. Reason: lack of credit history. A lot of people have similar stories. >This depends on your definitions a little bit. The part where you spend money that isn't yours and then pay…

> Prevent landlords from pulling credit history. I never understood this - why is someone else asking for your credit history a ding on your credit report? It seems really silly to me, but I must be missing something.

Because it's evidence that you're trying to take on more debt.

Inquiries only affect your credit when they're from someone whom you've authorized to pull your credit as a potential creditor: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/finance/credit-report-soft-h...

Re: The careless errors of credit reporting agencies

#210

Post by nickpsecurity » Sun, Sep 11, 2016, 10:00 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #83

The US is as far as I know the only country in the world who have a positive creditscore system. At least in Europe it's mostly based on a negative creditscore i.e. you are trusted by definition but if you don't pay your bills you end up not being allowed access to credit. In the US they don't trust you per definition and instead you have to prove that you are good with money by basically creating debt and then payin…

"that is that the US is a country of immigration and so you had to find a way to allow foreign people without any history and no reason to trust them."

Remember our banking system in U.S. pays politicians to create laws that benefit them. It's actually not much a stretch to even claim they own the country between ex-bankers doing the regulations, bankers paying off politicians, bankers getting bailouts, the Fed, and bankers obviously controlling financial backbone of economy. So, I always consider whether this could have impacted a law, standard practice, or whatever.

Well, one thing they like is you buying stuff with their money and paying interest. It's basically how they all make money outside things like fees and services. Guess what our "backwards" credit system forces us to do. You were absolutely correct if you guessed "guarantee billions in profits for bankers." I'm not sure if they created the original model but it should be on list of possibilities to consider given they pull lots of stuff like this.

Another example they probably paid politicians for is how they do tax write-offs on charged-off loans they're not going to collect. The reasonable parts are them not paying taxes on loans they can't collect and borrower paying taxes on amount they borrowed because it's effectively income. The sneaky modification they also write off the interest and fees they charged on top while borrower pays taxes on those as if they were income. Interest and fees certainly aren't income. This scheme works great for banks and IRS but not consumers.