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A prototype of a decentralized political party

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11–20 of 37 posts

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#11
post #7

What a marvelously ignorant idea. Why is it so hard to understand that there will be no magic machine that will allow you to live happily ever after without need to think.

Why is it so hard to understand that there will be no magic machine that will fly into space and put satellites that will relay our messages to one another...oh wait...

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#12
This techno-utopianism "solution" fails to understand that the basic goal of a political party is to get people elected into office, full stop. Even if your radical decentralised crowdfunded party makes you feel good, if you're not getting people into legislative and executive positions, you are doing it wrong.

Further, all of these theoretical goals break down when the theories collide with reality. All systems can be gamed, and the way to reduce the effects of it is not to embark on quixotic quest to create a completely transparent party where everybody has perfect information of all things at all time. Rather, focus on incentivising whistleblowers and removing corruption when it meets the light of day.

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#13
post #10

Voluntary voting effectively gives people with a single-issue obsession more power than everyone else, because they show up to vote. In compulsory voting systems, the outliers are moderated by the median, whose concerns are typically less emotional (abortion, guns) and more economic (price of milk, mortgage rates). Political parties are a concentrated form of voluntary voting. One of the reasons the USA's primaries s…

Representative forms of democracy can be implemented on top of direct democracy, no?

Yes, you're right, it can. I believe liquid democracy is a good compromise between the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0_Vhldz-8

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#14
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Representative forms of democracy can be implemented on top of direct democracy, no?

Yes, you're right, it can. I believe liquid democracy is a good compromise between the two: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg0_Vhldz-8

There are a few groups trying to promote liquid democracy utilising a blockchain. I'm really looking forward to see which one will be in the right place and in the right time to grab that Network Effect.

Nice proposal, looking forward what will come of it.

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#15
post #10

Voluntary voting effectively gives people with a single-issue obsession more power than everyone else, because they show up to vote. In compulsory voting systems, the outliers are moderated by the median, whose concerns are typically less emotional (abortion, guns) and more economic (price of milk, mortgage rates). Political parties are a concentrated form of voluntary voting. One of the reasons the USA's primaries s…

Representative forms of democracy can be implemented on top of direct democracy, no?

Do you mean "having a representative vote mechanically according to the results of another direct vote"?

Sure, for the purposes of argument, you could draw a distinction.

The dynamics will look like direct democracy. With all the troubles there attending.

I imagine it would last until someone helpfully circulated a copy of Burke's Speech to the Electors of Bristol.

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#16
post #7

What a marvelously ignorant idea. Why is it so hard to understand that there will be no magic machine that will allow you to live happily ever after without need to think.

Why is it so hard to understand that there will be no magic machine that will fly into space and put satellites that will relay our messages to one another...oh wait...

ouch, dat STRETCH ;)

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#17

M5S is trying to do that in Italy.[1] Though they don't use any crypto technologies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Star_Movement#Ideology

Italian citizen here. The experiment was interesting, but it's implementation is quite sub-optimal: when you have to govern, you recognize that matters are quite more complicated and you need to compromise. This is not necessarily wrong, if you have the intellectual honesty to admit that the utopian purity that you assumed as the main differentiator between you and the "old, dirty politics" is, well, an utopic oversimplification.

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#18
post #6

Trying to end corruption in the US, I'm starting to think, is what has brought American politics to its current low state. I think the worst political decision of the past few decades was the move to ban earmarks. Whatever negative things you can say about them, earmarks gave congresspeople a way to please their constituency without reference to some particular ideological test. They could always say: "Well sure, I d…

That's actually a fascinating argument I've never heard before. It's similar to the more pragmatic argument against drug prohibition. When you prohibit something people want, they find other ways to do it or get it and in the end you've just created a lot of perverse incentives and new opportunities for corruption.

I'm not totally sold on your position, but I definitely agree that ideology has become a huge problem in politics. It's totally driven out the "git r done" types of real problem solvers in favor of deluded ideologues unwilling to compromise and therefore unable to do anything other than posture for their constituents. Meanwhile all the real wheeling and dealing is driven to the margins and into the dark.

I wonder if another symptom of what you describe is stuff being railroaded through with trade deals instead of domestic laws.

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#19
post #6

Trying to end corruption in the US, I'm starting to think, is what has brought American politics to its current low state. I think the worst political decision of the past few decades was the move to ban earmarks. Whatever negative things you can say about them, earmarks gave congresspeople a way to please their constituency without reference to some particular ideological test. They could always say: "Well sure, I d…

Just going to have to disagree... I think earmarks are exactly the thing that caused congresspeople to lose all of their power.

> you've just put the big donors totally in charge of the campaign, because their spending dwarfs the spending of the candidates themselves.

When the donors are the corporations, and earmarks result in higher profits for the corporations, a dangerous positive feedback loop occurs where you basically end up with corporations controlling the government instead of the elected politicians.

As far as the worst political decision of the past few decades, watch this video if you have an hour to spare. It lays out the case where adding transparency in congressional voting is really the root cause of Congress being so screwed up. It might change your mind... https://youtu.be/1gEz__sMVaY

Re: A prototype of a decentralized political party

#20
post #12

This techno-utopianism "solution" fails to understand that the basic goal of a political party is to get people elected into office, full stop. Even if your radical decentralised crowdfunded party makes you feel good, if you're not getting people into legislative and executive positions, you are doing it wrong. Further, all of these theoretical goals break down when the theories collide with reality. All systems can…

> the basic goal of a political party is to get people elected into office, full stop

You'd be surprised how many people think that parties exist to promote a certain ideology and bring it into power -- not necessarily by getting elected.

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