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European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

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51–60 of 191 posts

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#51
post #5

I agree, this is bad for the internet. However, some context is missing: The case was in the Netherlands, regarding the website GeenStijl linking to leaked playboy pictures. The court said that 1) GeenStijl made money from it 2) they should and could have know, and most probably knew, that this content was illegal (because they posted it as 'leaked nudes!!'). The combination of these (earning money from content that…

Making money is the point here. It's not illegal for me to point at a guy selling bootleg DVDs on the streets of NY. But if you pay me to show you where you can buy bootleg DVDs in NY, I'm pretty sure I'd be found to be at least an accessory.

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#53
Can anyone tell if this is transitive? Let's say you link to a picture or download you don't own. This ruling says you are guilty of infringement, right? Now what happens when I link to your site? Am I guilty too? And when someone else links to mine? Am I now responsible for ensuring the entire web of links downstream of mine is not infringing? Or is there a criminal intent thing here, so people like Google can still link to the pirate bay because it's simply part of the internet?

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#54
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the decision[0] though? It specifically addresses this. > it is to be determined whether those links are provided without the pursuit of financial gain by a person who did not know or could not reasonably have known the illegal nature of the publication of those works on that other website or whether, on the contrary, those links are provided for such a purpose, a situation in which that knowledge must…

IANAL, but my reading of that is if one makes money from one's site (e.g. by having ads) then EU will assume that one knows whether or not linked content is infringing. Because €10/month from adwords is totally enough to hire a lawyer to evaluate every link that users post. Anyway, how does that "specifically address" GP's question about mutability? That isn't even mentioned in the bolded text.

As far as I can see from the rest of the document, the reason why profit motive is clumsily forced into that sentence is because it was argued that the act of posting the link itself was an attempt to increase the site's revenue because the owners were aware the public would be interested in visiting their webpage linking to the material because it wasn't authorised for publication anywhere at the time. Hence their decision to draw attention to it with "leaked pics" headline and post-DMCA-takedown followup headlines referring to the copyright holder whilst linking to new copies of the material. In other words they're saying that a publisher that has demonstrated awareness that a particular piece of material is so difficult to find that they can generate extra pageviews and revenue from communicating the fact they have a link to it, they can reasonably be expected to have carried out some checks to the provenance of the linked material. We're talking about a situation where the existence of the link and intimation that it might not be authorised was the subject of a headline, not an entry in a directory or search result. A natural reading of "links are provided without the pursuit of financial gain" is that if the posting of hyperlink(s) to copyrighted material is incidental to the profitability of your site you're probably not in danger of falling foul of that particular directive.

There are other more unambiguous statements acknowledging existing case law which appears to rule out webmasters falling foul of websites' mutability like: The user makes an act of communication when it intervenes, in full knowledge of the consequences of its action, to give access to a protected work to its customers, and does so, in particular, where, in the absence of that intervention, its customers would not, in principle, be able to enjoy the broadcast work

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#55
post #40

Illegal content? I guess they mean copyrighted content? Isn't that pretty much the entire internet? Even this comment is my intellectual property, so will this make you a criminal if you link to this comment without my consent? And isn't youtube making money of copyrighted content, or does youtube have a special deal with the court that only they are allowed to do this?

They mean unauthorized copies of copyrighted works, not all copyrighted works.

A previous ruling of the CJEU covered a similar situation to your hypothetical, and ruled that once something is made freely available to the general Internet by the copyright holder, they lose the right to control who can link to that content. Of course, they retain the right to control who can copy it.

YouTube has a system in place for reporting infringing content. It's not necessarily very effective, but it's better - from a legal standpoint - than being told repeatedly that content is infringing and but intentionally and knowingly republishing links to the content each time another set of infringing copies gets taken down.

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#56
post #38

Techdirt has a good writeup on the new ruling. One of the good points made on Techdirt, is regarding search engines which are obviously for-profit. How in the world would Google keep from linking to material which is violating someone's copyright? https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160908/11305735465/terri...

simple: google has no idea what it indexes. Please read the full ruling, which explains this only applies to those who willingly and intentionally link to content they _know_ is illegal, _and_ do so for monetary gain. Which is perfectly reasonable. The article posted to HN is pretty much fear-mongering for te purpose of getting some clicks.

It's not that easy. What if the MPAA, Playboy, etc. send file filenames to Google and say "It's illegal to link to this file and if you do so, you are willingly and intentionally violating our copyright" Is that really what we want? It's a slippery slope when courts make these rulings without really understanding the impacts.

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#57
post #5

I agree, this is bad for the internet. However, some context is missing: The case was in the Netherlands, regarding the website GeenStijl linking to leaked playboy pictures. The court said that 1) GeenStijl made money from it 2) they should and could have know, and most probably knew, that this content was illegal (because they posted it as 'leaked nudes!!'). The combination of these (earning money from content that…

What if the link had consisted of a prominent section "How to find it" consisting of the words (I'm making this up) "Search Google for leaked playboy pictures from 2011 , and click on the first link, which should be a site named after a fish." Now it is a passing reference to how to find it -- but your criteria that 1) they made money from it, and 2) they could know and should know that this content is illegal. Well,…

I don't think reproduction is a good line at all; HN could still be guilty if someone posted an unlicensed copyrighted work (say, a news article).

Intention and knowledge is the best dividing line, in my opinion, and courts certainly take it into account. HN blindly reproduces what people post, whereas the link in question was posted by the site editors themselves - that's a clear distinction, and in fact many lawsuits (in the US) were based on it.

I do disagree with the court's decision to presume that any publication for financial gain is done with knowledge of the copyright status, though.

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#58
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

simple: google has no idea what it indexes. Please read the full ruling, which explains this only applies to those who willingly and intentionally link to content they _know_ is illegal, _and_ do so for monetary gain. Which is perfectly reasonable. The article posted to HN is pretty much fear-mongering for te purpose of getting some clicks.

It's not that easy. What if the MPAA, Playboy, etc. send file filenames to Google and say "It's illegal to link to this file and if you do so, you are willingly and intentionally violating our copyright" Is that really what we want? It's a slippery slope when courts make these rulings without really understanding the impacts.

"What if?" That's already what happens. Google puts up a notice that some results have been omitted due to DMCA requests and links a copy of the requests.

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#59
So then Facebook can be sued if someone posts a link to my copyrighted content? I hope none of my "friends" post a link to the picture I just took and don't want on Facebook then. I wouldn't want to have to sue them.

This ruling will take about 20 seconds before it is abused for profit.

Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement

#60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

simple: google has no idea what it indexes. Please read the full ruling, which explains this only applies to those who willingly and intentionally link to content they _know_ is illegal, _and_ do so for monetary gain. Which is perfectly reasonable. The article posted to HN is pretty much fear-mongering for te purpose of getting some clicks.

It's not that easy. What if the MPAA, Playboy, etc. send file filenames to Google and say "It's illegal to link to this file and if you do so, you are willingly and intentionally violating our copyright" Is that really what we want? It's a slippery slope when courts make these rulings without really understanding the impacts.

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