European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
41–50 of 191 posts
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#42Interesting how the law is so perverted that irrational seems to be the norm.
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#43>Article 3(1) of Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society must be interpreted as meaning that, in order to establish whether the fact of posting, on a website, hyperlinks to protected works, which are freely available on another website without the consent of the copyright holder, constitutes a ‘communication to the public’ within the meaning of that provision, it is to be determined whether those links are provided without the pursuit of financial gain by a person who did not know or could not reasonably have known the illegal nature of the publication of those works on that other website or whether, on the contrary, those links are provided for such a purpose, a situation in which that knowledge must be presumed.
That last sentence is a bit hard to follow, but it appears to say that linking to freely available third party content constitutes a communication to the public of the freely available third party content only if financial gain was pursued by the linking party when they understood the third party content to be "illegal".
It is a seriously bad construation to infer that communication of public names (URLs) is a "communication to the public" of the actual third party content, unless the URL was designed by the third party for said content (however, in such case, the content was already communicated to the public by the third party).
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#44I agree, this is bad for the internet. However, some context is missing: The case was in the Netherlands, regarding the website GeenStijl linking to leaked playboy pictures. The court said that 1) GeenStijl made money from it 2) they should and could have know, and most probably knew, that this content was illegal (because they posted it as 'leaked nudes!!'). The combination of these (earning money from content that…
Now it is a passing reference to how to find it -- but your criteria that 1) they made money from it, and 2) they could know and should know that this content is illegal.
Well, all right. So let's say that is contributing to copyright infringement. Let's make it illegal.
Now what if we change the passing reference to be "the pictures are pretty easy to find via Google." What if we imagine that this is how the reference now reads.
What now? What if it's illegal and what if the site makes money off of it?
How about Hacker News. It is a statistical certainty that at least one reader decided to find the pictures based on our report here. It's certain. With absolute certainty you can say that someone searched and found the pictures.
Does YCombinator get value from the fact that this report contributes to interesting information being available here? Absolutely.
So, should Hacker News be allowed to report on this court case as explicitly as it has done?
Remember: it is absolutely certain that some people have found the pictures as a result, and it is also absolutely certain that they would know this would happen. They directly benefit from it.
So where does it end?
A good place to draw the line might be: reproducing content. Since, you know, that's what copyright ... wait for it ... actually limits...
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hope that's the case, and I didn't read the legal text, but how would you protect yourself against that? Would we have to keep tamper-proof screenshots (or archive.is-like snapshots) for each external link posted?
Cryptographic, digital notaries. You could do screenshots and/or HTML pages. It's how I've always done it when I thought what's on a page would be significant and need proof later on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_timestamping EDIT: There's also newer ones that pull the site for you like a MITM to do what we're saying. Startups come and go, though, so I recommend scripted or manual scraping combined with long…
I'm thinking in purely technical terms here, and that I can easily argue that such evidence is inadmissible, unless there's a certain number of independent, trusted snapshot services that would archive each link too, and allow one to compare the decrypted archive. To achieve that, one would probably want to use an indirection for linking so that such archives do not have to archive everything that exists, but just those that go through said indirection.
Then, the last question is how many independents you need to put trust in the verification, considering that motivated attackers could circumvent, say, the 3 most used archiving services. Or you could bind the archival of a link in a federated number snapshot services to a consensus algorithm. Then you'd ask yourself how many networks (which consist of multiple services) you'd trust.
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#46Techdirt has a good writeup on the new ruling. One of the good points made on Techdirt, is regarding search engines which are obviously for-profit. How in the world would Google keep from linking to material which is violating someone's copyright? https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160908/11305735465/terri...
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#47I agree, this is bad for the internet. However, some context is missing: The case was in the Netherlands, regarding the website GeenStijl linking to leaked playboy pictures. The court said that 1) GeenStijl made money from it 2) they should and could have know, and most probably knew, that this content was illegal (because they posted it as 'leaked nudes!!'). The combination of these (earning money from content that…
It may be bad for the internet, but it seems fair and also consistent with earlier EU rules, such as the "right to be forgotten". It places an extra burden on the big, commercial sites to remove links (or stop linking on the first place) to content that is considered illegal in the EU. Of course, that may be considered bad for the internet, because most people, as long as they are not the victim, like to see leaked n…
Why did you insert the word "big" in front of "commercial sites"? There is no such qualification in the court's ruling.
Every small blogger who makes a little money through ads now has an obligation to check whether or not the owner of every single linked page owns the copyrights to the content they publish (or will publish on that page in the future).
I have no idea how anyone could possibly perform these checks. Do you ask the linked site for proof? But if anyone is going to find a way through this legal nightmare it's going to be the very biggest players with big legal departments.
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#48Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#49My god, I love Europe, but they have some of the most brain-dead results when it comes to decisions that affect the Internet.
In this case the _actual_ ruling is about linking to content that you know is illegal, but you still intentionally link to for monetary gains. Any reasonable court, or person for that matter, would go "oh... yeah that's obviously a VERY DIFFERENT matter from this article's claim, and punishing someone for that is kind of reasonable."
Re: European court says linking to illegal content is copyright infringement
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cryptographic, digital notaries. You could do screenshots and/or HTML pages. It's how I've always done it when I thought what's on a page would be significant and need proof later on. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_timestamping EDIT: There's also newer ones that pull the site for you like a MITM to do what we're saying. Startups come and go, though, so I recommend scripted or manual scraping combined with long…
While we could implement a system to have tamper proof verification of stuff that's been archived, how do you prove that the archive (snapshot) is what was actually at the target at creation time and hasn't been modified before archival? I'm thinking in purely technical terms here, and that I can easily argue that such evidence is inadmissible, unless there's a certain number of independent, trusted snapshot services…