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VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

detroitnews.com

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Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#121

Post by Zancarius »

BurningFrog wrote: post #92
bsder wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This guy isn't the "fall guy" or just a poor engineer hung out to try instead of an exec, he deserves to go to prison based on the material facts of his plea: Um, yeah, that case is so good that they needed a plea bargain ... um ... sure. I really don't understand why this guy is signing a plea deal. This is a classic example of a case complicated enough that the jurors would almost certainly be unable to come to "…

In the US, 97% of federal cases and 94% of state cases are plea bargained. Trial by jury is only common in TV dramas today. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/stronger-hand-for-judge...

I'd believe it.

A couple of years ago when I sat for jury duty, during one of my last call-ins as it was, we'd been in the pool room for a good hour or so precisely because of the statistics you cite. The bailiffs were getting a bit antsy and kept leaving the room, only to return a few minutes later to answer questions from a few impatient jurors. As it turned out, there were something on the order of about 7 trials on the docket scheduled for that day, and the first 3 or 4 had already ended with a plea bargain by that point rather late in the morning. We were told they would usually schedule between 7 to 10 trials on average because most of the defendants would usually agree to a deal. They assured us we would be going to juror selection "soon" and went about their business.

The unusual thing was that the remaining trials also ended in a deal, and after staying for ~2+ hours, we were free to go. Out of my 3 months, I only ever sat on one trial but we did get called in quite a few times. I certainly didn't expect to be turned away because none of the scheduled trials actually went to trial.

As an aside, I had an opportunity at the end of my term to speak with one of the prosecutors (I was leaving my last session at the end of my term and ran into him in the parking lot as he was getting lunch) who expressed frustration with the drug laws for wasting taxpayer money and jurors' time. Very interesting discussion.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#122

Post by wsh »

criddell wrote: post #2

If Mr. Liang is a P.Eng., I hope he loses his license. There should be a bunch of Engineers losing their licenses.

In California, Michigan, and most other U.S. states, engineers who work for companies as product designers have a so-called “industrial exemption”: they are not required by law to be licensed, or indeed to have professional qualifications of any kind. (See, for example, Cal. Bus. & Prof. Code § 6747 and Mich. Comp. Laws § 339.2012.)

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#123

Post by mrtree »

josho wrote: post #112
Gibbon1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neoliberal ideology makes the claim that prison is necessary to dissuade working class people from committing crimes. Whereas embarrassment and the tort system is sufficient for dissuading the management classes. Since we live in a neoliberal system it stands that this guy will go to jail and his bosses will perhaps pay fines.

You can't be serious? Are you!? please tell me that you have a source.

Don't you see the news?? Check for any scandal, there is your source.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#124

Post by mrtree »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #95
wallace_f wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2008 financial crisis destroyed millions of hard workings people's retirement savings, jobs, and recent college graduates hopes of finding a job. No one went to jail over that. This is clearly a case of someone not having the right lawyers and political connections as engineers are people who actually create value as is often the case they can be successful without those two.

Neoliberal ideology makes the claim that prison is necessary to dissuade working class people from committing crimes. Whereas embarrassment and the tort system is sufficient for dissuading the management classes. Since we live in a neoliberal system it stands that this guy will go to jail and his bosses will perhaps pay fines.

Very well put mister.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#125

Post by mrtree »

ramenmeal wrote: post #60
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual engineers don't make product decisions at big companies like Volkswagen. When I worked as an engineer at a big company, I couldn't even use a different text editor.

"James Robert Liang, leader of diesel competence for VW" He's not an individual engineer, he was a team lead from the sound of it. Also, your experience "at a big company" has no relevance here.

He is not an exec, he does not make corporate decissions.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#127

Post by jrochkind1 »

ardacinar wrote: post #4

Something away from the scandal itself, non-American here and I don't get plea deals. I mean, normally, a trial can result in acquittal even if the defendant admits their guilt if there's very strong objective evidence(DNA records etc.) disproving it. There has existed previous cases where some new evidence surfaced years after a plea deal and the defendant, previously found guilty, was released. So, why does a plea…

> I mean, normally, a trial can result in acquittal even if the defendant admits their guilt if there's very strong objective evidence(DNA records etc.) disproving it.

Curious what country you are in where that's normal. Definitely not in the US. If the defendant admits their guilt, there isn't a trial in the US at all, it's done.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#128

Post by Gibbon1 »

josho wrote: post #112
Gibbon1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neoliberal ideology makes the claim that prison is necessary to dissuade working class people from committing crimes. Whereas embarrassment and the tort system is sufficient for dissuading the management classes. Since we live in a neoliberal system it stands that this guy will go to jail and his bosses will perhaps pay fines.

You can't be serious? Are you!? please tell me that you have a source.

I'm serious actually. Some references to Richard Posner (Judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit)

https://books.google.com/books?id=A7IRDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA186&lpg=...

http://www.masonlec.org/site/rte_uploads/files/Hylton_crimec...

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#129

Post by InclinedPlane »

josho wrote: post #112
Gibbon1 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neoliberal ideology makes the claim that prison is necessary to dissuade working class people from committing crimes. Whereas embarrassment and the tort system is sufficient for dissuading the management classes. Since we live in a neoliberal system it stands that this guy will go to jail and his bosses will perhaps pay fines.

You can't be serious? Are you!? please tell me that you have a source.

Are YOU serious? Have you been paying attention?

If an individual is found guilty of money laundering for a drug cartel they go to jail forever. When a bank does it they get fined (HSBC).

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#130

Post by edanm »

wallace_f wrote: post #77
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, he's guilty but get the rest of the crooks too. This brings Enron to mind. Yes the accountants did all the bookkeeping and they are guilty but the fraud was run from the executive suite. What this guy did was a result of what the executives wanted not the initiator. Not just that, it went on and on and on... To me, it's irritating that the 1st person to make the news is the engineer when clearly he's just part o…

The 2008 financial crisis destroyed millions of hard workings people's retirement savings, jobs, and recent college graduates hopes of finding a job. No one went to jail over that. This is clearly a case of someone not having the right lawyers and political connections as engineers are people who actually create value as is often the case they can be successful without those two.

Who exactly should've gone to jail over the 2008 financial crisis? Something bad having happened does not automatically mean that someone did something wrong.
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