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Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

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Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#291

Post by quadrangle »

hueving wrote: post #286
quadrangle wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing "didn't even know they wanted" with "took for granted". In the pre-industrial era with much lower populations, human-sourced massive environmental pollution wasn't common. Many people didn't even realize it was possible. Everyone wanted and most people had clean environments and only learned to make it an issue when the clean environments started to disappear in places.

>Many people didn't even realize it was possible. Everyone wanted and most people had clean environments Except for every person living in a city. Cities were insufferable during the industrial boom.

From my comment: "… pre-industrial … wasn't common … many people … most people … "

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#293

Post by pkulak »

hguant wrote: post #131
pkulak wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you have to act before all possible information and understanding is in. The odds are overwhelming at this point that many, many non-human animals have consciousness very much like our own.

That's a very nice sentiment, but aside from the obvious (dolphins, a few whales, some primates, and elephants) do you have any sort of proof or justification for this statement? "Many many" is a very strong claim.

The two "many"s was a typo.

You just named "many", as far as I'm concerned. How many proven examples do we need before we start to think that the only reason we don't know of 1000s more is because of lack of research?

You also forget cephalopods. Oh, and Magpies and some other birds.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#294

Post by quadrangle »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #280
quadrangle wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing "didn't even know they wanted" with "took for granted". In the pre-industrial era with much lower populations, human-sourced massive environmental pollution wasn't common. Many people didn't even realize it was possible. Everyone wanted and most people had clean environments and only learned to make it an issue when the clean environments started to disappear in places.

No. "Didn't know they wanted." There has been a protracted and concerted propaganda effort to change consciousness about this subject. What makes a Theodore Roosevelt exceptional is that he listened to John Muir decades before that kind of thinking was commonplace. I think there was a long span of time where you could set rivers on fire, cut the air in cities with a knife and become sickened or killed by drinking wat…

From my comment: "… pre-industrial … most people …" etc.

There's been probably as much or more protracted and concerted propaganda from industrialists (who have more wealth and power to spread their messages) as the environmental sort.

You're just fantasizing if you think there have been large populations of people who lived next to rivers on fire and horribly polluted air and water and litter and yet "didn't know they wanted" a clean environment. They may not have had the political terminology to talk about it, but basically nobody likes living in trash.

The whole failure of large populations not to pick up their litter etc. makes complete sense to anyone who understands social-psychology, game theory etc. It's in no sense evidence that people liked living with litter or didn't want an unlittered environment.

The environmental movement correlates strongly with the increasing amount of pollution and other environmental issues in the world. This is not arbitrary coincidence. It also involves things like increased understanding of the impacts of pollution from advances in scientific knowledge.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#295

Post by jogjayr »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

" its per capita electricity consumption is about one-quarter of, say, France or Belgium." Its in the bottom quartile worldwide I believe. Also the recommendations for the USA are way off. The "only way" to reach this goal is apparently to build lots of wind and solar. No mention whatsoever of nuclear, which is by far the more practical solution. And far less ecologically damaging.

I'm not up-to-date with nuclear. Is waste storage and disposal now a solved problem? Last I heard it had to be stored in hollowed-out mountains, walled in with concrete.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#296

Post by quadrangle »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #284
quadrangle wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misanthropy is easy to come by when evidence supporting it is widespread. The best thing to send to anyone worried about population is: https://www.gapminder.org/videos/dont-panic-end-poverty/

Misanthropy is dangerous .

I wasn't advocating it.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#297

Post by vacri »

goodcanadian wrote: post #197
Arnt wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solar panels are large compared to a house, not large compared to a desert.

Here is a couple of square miles of solar panels in the Mojave Desert. If you zoom out, you'll find quite a bit more nearby. Whether or not you count this as large, the impact is not negligible. https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2%B048'44.1%22N+118%C2... EDIT: To be clear, I am not fundamentally opposed to such installations just as I am not fundamentally opposed to new hydroelectric projects, but we need to be a…

Traditional power stations aren't exactly small, either. In fact, people will think you're a lunatic if you start talking about nuclear or coal in "per square meter of land" terms.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#298

Post by leodeid »

astrodust wrote: post #213
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes think they reject the idea that the whole point of existence is human flourishing and happiness. Yes, many people reject this idea. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone express this idea.

You have spent way too much time on Hacker News. Gross Domestic Happiness was coined in 1972 and the idea exists way beyond that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_National_Happiness For example, the US Constitution proudly proclaims that "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" are unalienable rights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_Liberty_and_the_pursuit_...

Nit: The inalienable rights of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is in the Declaration of Independence. None of those things are broadly recognized as rights in the Constitution. I have been unable to determine to what extent referencing the Declaration of Independence is permissible in questions related to constitutional law. I'm inclined to believe that it depends on the party involved. (Scalia certainly objects to Declaration of Independence having legal sway [1]. Surprisingly to me, Clarence Thomas goes the other way [2].)

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/99-138.ZD1.html [2] http://www.nationalreview.com/bench-memos/373697/clarence-th... - I wasn't able to find a clear opinion from Thomas citing the DoI, but I am not good at searching through opinions.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#299

Post by vacri »

imgabe wrote: post #98
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't rely 100% precisely because hydro is unreliable . A dry season and it runs down (which it did). And dams - isn't Mosul going to be destroyed soon because its dam requires constant maintenance (a clay curtain pumped into the porous bedrock) which hasn't happened since Desert Storm?

Everything requires maintenance. Solar panels have to be cleaned or replaced if they get scratched. You have to clean the bird carcasses out of the windmills. Nuclear requires constant supervision. There's no maintenance-free option.

Coal also requires humans to transport lots of fuel to it, and lots of big machinery to get that fuel.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#300

Post by ars »

unprepare wrote: post #94
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes think they reject the idea that the whole point of existence is human flourishing and happiness. Yes, many people reject this idea. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone express this idea.

theres also religious folks who believe the earth was created specifically for humans, and so everything here is for us and us alone. I find it a rather disgustingly self centered ideology. To presume that one (or ones species) is the most important thing in the world (or universe) is basically the definition of narcissism

Except humans are the most important thing in the world. It's not narcissism if it's true.

What's the point of even having a world if there are no humans in it? (Any conscious being, not just humans.)

Animals don't care if they exist, they just do what they were born to do, they don't ponder existence. Neither do plants or rocks.

Humans are the only ones (on this world at least) who actually care, and notice.

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