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VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

detroitnews.com

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Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#81

Post by dragonwriter »

bsder wrote: post #78
aresant wrote: post #46

This guy isn't the "fall guy" or just a poor engineer hung out to try instead of an exec, he deserves to go to prison based on the material facts of his plea: 1) He was the central figure in engineering the device. 2) He understood exactly what he was doing and made repeated efforts to perpetuate the lie to the government and EPA. 3) He led efforts to damage control and roll out an update to consumers under the guise…

> This guy isn't the "fall guy" or just a poor engineer hung out to try instead of an exec, he deserves to go to prison based on the material facts of his plea: Um, yeah, that case is so good that they needed a plea bargain ... um ... sure. I really don't understand why this guy is signing a plea deal. This is a classic example of a case complicated enough that the jurors would almost certainly be unable to come to "…

> Um, yeah, that case is so good that they needed a plea bargain

Even with a slam dunk, prosecutors usually prefer a plea bargain. They have limited budgets, trials are expensive, and if you can get a guilty plea with an agreement on an acceptable sentence and get the defendant and a judge to sign off without the time and expense of a trial, that's a big win.

(And, if they were likely to lose at trial, its also a big win for the defendant where they aren't indigent and are paying for the defense out of their own pocket -- a plea deal is cheaper than a trial, and may get them a substantially better outcome in sentencing.)

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#82

Post by kuschku »

pweissbrod wrote: post #17

Given the minimal information in this article you cant help but wonder if this is a blatant attempt at designating someone to take the fall for a larger conspiracy, or if higher-level indictments are on the way. At a company like VW decisions like this are never made at the engineering level.

> At a company like VW decisions like this are never made at the engineering level.

He was the manager of the entire Diesel department – that’s not "engineering level".

He just happens to be an engineer, too – because VW mostly promotes engineers to managers (even a previous CEO was a housegrown engineer)

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#83

Post by linksnapzz »

SwellJoe wrote: post #23
jasonkostempski wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe the requirements really are way over the line. In that case I wouldn't hold any grudges. Just because something is classified a felony doesn't mean it's morally wrong. Edit: To clarify, I'm not suggesting this guy taking the dive for the execs is ok, just that someone lying about emission test results may not be as horrible as they're trying to make it sound.

The emissions standards are already a dangerous compromise; we should have been making hard decisions about emissions 20, even 30, years ago...they've gotten stricter because they were disastrously lenient in the past, and we see the results of it. The reasons someone lying about emissions tests are really as bad is it sounds: - If one manufacturer lies, other manufacturers are forced to either lie, or lose customers…

You don't know how emissions should be regulated, but somehow you know the regulations aren't working b/c they are too lenient?

My hypothesis is that all of the diesel-powered cars sold in the past 20 years in the US could vanish tonight, and there would be no significant change in the planet's climate vs. had people continued to drive them.

The real motivation for strictly regulating diesels is their predilection to produce oxides of nitrogen and particulates, which contribute to smog and respiratory distress.

While one has to make allowances for the climate and traffic in a particular place (the LA basin is always going to be smog-prone, and probably should be able to set its own regs for mobile pollution sources), the point of diminishing returns for adding more pollution controls to cars probably past at least 15 years ago.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#84

Post by yitchelle »

You know what is rather strange. Germany, the home country of VW, has been very quiet when compared to the US and other countries. One one hand, I think that they want to limit the damage. VW is one of the pillars the German economy. On the other hand, VW did admit to breaking the law and the appropriate penalty must be given.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#85

Post by Matthias247 »

ramenmeal wrote: post #60
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual engineers don't make product decisions at big companies like Volkswagen. When I worked as an engineer at a big company, I couldn't even use a different text editor.

"James Robert Liang, leader of diesel competence for VW" He's not an individual engineer, he was a team lead from the sound of it. Also, your experience "at a big company" has no relevance here.

This even sounds somewhere between 2 to 3 levels above team lead. As a team [lead] in automotive you are mostly only responsible for a very small part of the system, and "diesel competence" sounds more strategic. Although titles are often manager, senior manager and then director of something, so it's hard to tell what leader is. But I guess it's far more an executive position with > 200 people below than an an "actual engineer".

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#87

Post by linksnapzz »

aianus wrote: post #66
SwellJoe wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CO2 is regulated, and so is NOx. Buses and trucks are also regulated and have to adhere to emissions standards, and get tested regularly; at least, in the US, they are regulated more heavily than autos (or, at least have more paperwork and legal obligations involved in driving them, and have a higher tax burden). People riding a bus are, in aggregate, producing much less waste than if they were all driving automobile…

CO2 is certainly not regulated in passenger vehicles. You're free to drive as big and fuel inefficient of a car as you like.

It is, in the sense that curbing CO2 emissions is the justification de jour for the current arbitrary fuel economy regulations for new cars sold in the US.

Here, it's more like: "you are free to drive the biggest and most fuel inefficient new car you like, that can be built without the government fining the manufacturer into insolvency."

The backdoor efficiency standards cause OEMs to spend more money on making lighter cars with smaller, more complicated engines, which end up being less durable and more expensive to repair.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#89

Post by PhasmaFelis »

aresant wrote: post #46

This guy isn't the "fall guy" or just a poor engineer hung out to try instead of an exec, he deserves to go to prison based on the material facts of his plea: 1) He was the central figure in engineering the device. 2) He understood exactly what he was doing and made repeated efforts to perpetuate the lie to the government and EPA. 3) He led efforts to damage control and roll out an update to consumers under the guise…

He can be 100% complicit and guilty and also a fall guy, if he was acting on orders from a higher-up who goes unpunished.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#90

Post by NumberCruncher »

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #63
ramenmeal wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"James Robert Liang, leader of diesel competence for VW" He's not an individual engineer, he was a team lead from the sound of it. Also, your experience "at a big company" has no relevance here.

"Leader of diesel competence" -- that sounds like one of those generated Silicon Valley job titles you get off of: http://siliconvalleyjobtitlegenerator.tumblr.com/ It turns out "VW almost exclusively promotes their engineers to managers."

= P.L.E.A.S.E
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