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VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

detroitnews.com

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Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#11

Post by SwellJoe »

scrumper wrote: post #3
criddell wrote: post #2

If Mr. Liang is a P.Eng., I hope he loses his license. There should be a bunch of Engineers losing their licenses.

There should be some executives losing their jobs and freedom, if this guy is pleading guilty to several felonies. He wasn't acting on his own initiative.

It's almost always the little guys who take the fall. The banking crisis resulted in very few criminal charges...a lot of lower level employees lost their jobs and otherwise faced consequences, while the executives continued on as though nothing happened (they maybe took somewhat smaller bonuses that year, and acted chastened by the whole sordid affair, of course).

I suspect it'll be the same, though at least the CEO resigned over this. I'm sure Winterkorn remains a multimillionaire, and will continue to enjoy his freedom and lack of criminal record.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#12

Post by ArkyBeagle »

ardacinar wrote: post #4

Something away from the scandal itself, non-American here and I don't get plea deals. I mean, normally, a trial can result in acquittal even if the defendant admits their guilt if there's very strong objective evidence(DNA records etc.) disproving it. There has existed previous cases where some new evidence surfaced years after a plea deal and the defendant, previously found guilty, was released. So, why does a plea…

The defendant has the option of pursuing a trial. If the defendant loses the trial, there is usually a more severe sentence.

The justice system in the US is "adversarial." The product of the process is the verdict. Any official information entered into the public record is a side product, not a primary.

In cases where a prosecutor thinks the public information is more important, they have the option of not pursuing a deal.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#13

Post by ArkyBeagle »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #8
scrumper wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be some executives losing their jobs and freedom, if this guy is pleading guilty to several felonies. He wasn't acting on his own initiative.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe the requirements really are way over the line. In that case I wouldn't hold any grudges. Just because something is classified a felony doesn't mean it's morally wrong. Edit: To clarify, I'm not suggesting this guy taking the dive for the execs is ok, just that someone lying about emission test results may not be as horrible as they're trying to make it sound.

He signed up to be accountable for this. It's a way.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0535/6917/products/mistakes...

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#14

Post by kuschku »

sliverstorm wrote: post #5
scrumper wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be some executives losing their jobs and freedom, if this guy is pleading guilty to several felonies. He wasn't acting on his own initiative.

That's why I'm a little crestfallen that an engineer was first to be charged. By all means, charge the guilty & complicit, but I'm apprehensive the order could aide the narrative VW's execs tried to spin at first ( 'This company-wide scandal was clearly the work of exactly one rouge engineer' ) and help them get out scot-free.

"Engineer" at VW doesn’t mean he wasn’t in a managing position – VW almost exclusively promotes their engineers to managers, and rarely ever hires external talent.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#16

Post by mtgx »

jobu wrote: post #9

Last year, the Justice Department implemented new guidelines that call for linking individual accountability as part of corporate investigations. It's ridiculous that this is only being done now - everyone in the US has been screaming for it since the financial crisis in 2007-08.

And now they only have to find a fall guy and ensure his family is well off after he goes to prison.

In this case, three DAs have already found that top execs (and more) were implicated:

> "This cover-up was deep, wide and long-lasting. It extended from front-line engineers throughout the corner offices ... and right into the CEO suites," Schneiderman said, adding that the "toxic corporate culture that produced this fraud must be stopped."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkwsagen-emissions-idUSK...

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#17

Post by pweissbrod »

Given the minimal information in this article you cant help but wonder if this is a blatant attempt at designating someone to take the fall for a larger conspiracy, or if higher-level indictments are on the way. At a company like VW decisions like this are never made at the engineering level.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#18

Post by 4yt23623576 »

ardacinar wrote: post #4

Something away from the scandal itself, non-American here and I don't get plea deals. I mean, normally, a trial can result in acquittal even if the defendant admits their guilt if there's very strong objective evidence(DNA records etc.) disproving it. There has existed previous cases where some new evidence surfaced years after a plea deal and the defendant, previously found guilty, was released. So, why does a plea…

If you ask someone involved in the court system, they will tell you that plea deals are actually vital within the current court system. The judiciary is, in general, so underfunded in many jurisdictions that it would be simply impossible to try every case. Plea deals lessen the burden on the courts.

Obviously, this shouldn't be seen as a defense of plea deals, merely an explanation of one of the incentives that currently exist for them.

Properly funding our court systems would remove this incentive.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#19

Post by pavel_lishin »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #8
scrumper wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be some executives losing their jobs and freedom, if this guy is pleading guilty to several felonies. He wasn't acting on his own initiative.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe the requirements really are way over the line. In that case I wouldn't hold any grudges. Just because something is classified a felony doesn't mean it's morally wrong. Edit: To clarify, I'm not suggesting this guy taking the dive for the execs is ok, just that someone lying about emission test results may not be as horrible as they're trying to make it sound.

I'd say that causing 11 million cars to spew pollution into the atmosphere against regulations is fairly repugnant from a moral perspective. It's not different than him going around the back of a chemical plant that produces toxic byproducts, and opening a valve that releases toxins into a river when he knows the inspectors aren't watching.

edit: actually saw the number of cars.

Re: VW engineer pleads guilty to diesel emissions scandal

#20

Post by superuser2 »

pweissbrod wrote: post #17

Given the minimal information in this article you cant help but wonder if this is a blatant attempt at designating someone to take the fall for a larger conspiracy, or if higher-level indictments are on the way. At a company like VW decisions like this are never made at the engineering level.

>decisions like this are never made at the engineering level.

True, but the law has long held an obligation to "fall on your sword" disobeying illegal orders, even if it comes at great personal cost. See the lack of success of the "just following orders" defense at the Nuremberg trials.

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