Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity • Hacker News Board

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#131

Post by hguant » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

pkulak wrote: post #123

noir_lord wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone comes up with an objective measure of consciousness lets consider that. In the meantime I see no issue with optimising for human happiness in the general case.

Sometimes you have to act before all possible information and understanding is in. The odds are overwhelming at this point that many, many non-human animals have consciousness very much like our own.

That's a very nice sentiment, but aside from the obvious (dolphins, a few whales, some primates, and elephants) do you have any sort of proof or justification for this statement? "Many many" is a very strong claim.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#132

Post by DasIch » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:47 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #44

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

" its per capita electricity consumption is about one-quarter of, say, France or Belgium." Its in the bottom quartile worldwide I believe. Also the recommendations for the USA are way off. The "only way" to reach this goal is apparently to build lots of wind and solar. No mention whatsoever of nuclear, which is by far the more practical solution. And far less ecologically damaging.

>No mention whatsoever of nuclear, which is by far the more practical solution. And far less ecologically damaging. The UK's new Hinckley point power plant is both more expensive than solar/wind and puts the UK's energy generation in Chinese hands. There's a reason why Angela Merkel (relevant: probably the only physicist head of state) decided to shift to wind and solar.

Angela Merkel didn't decide to shift to wind and solar. The Atomaustieg (the decision to abandon nuclear power) was made in 2000 by a coalition of the social democrats and the greens. The movement that lead to this decision goes back to the 70s, the green party actually stems from that.

Merkel slowed down that process at a time where it stopped being that much of an issue and the process was put back on the initial schedule after Fukushima happened.

Merkel is merely going with popular opinion on this.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#133

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:49 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #125

sabertoothed wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially "_human_ flourishing and happiness". Why only human? Why not the well-being of all conscious creatures?

Well, for the most part, that's the accepted interpretation. We just don't value non-human well-being as much as human well-being (which I think given the current species involved is acceptable). The problem is the difference in how we value non-human well-being between different subsets of the population causes strife between those subsets. I believe very few think it's alright to torture an animal for no reason, bu…

And when it comes to non-fuzzy animals, the gloves come off. We have massive industries to exterminate insects, fungi, bacteria and so on. Even fish are hardly protected. If we could perform genocide on some of them, we would.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#134

Post by hguant » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:49 PM UTC

kbenson wrote: post #106

tamana wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an objective measure of human consciousness?

Having a discussion about what constitutes consciousness likely meets whatever criteria you can come up with handily.

Having a theory of mind is another one of those big ones. The problem is differentiating true awareness of the concepts of 'self' and 'other' from rote instinct - is a leopard stalking a gazelle aware of the gazelle as an entity and takes actions accordingly, or is it merely reacting to known sets of stimuli?

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#135

Post by vidarh » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:51 PM UTC

jfaucett wrote: post #19

Notice this is because 80% of the energy obtained was from Hydroelectric power, which is a great energy source because it is reliable - unlike wind and solar which in this case provided 7% and 0.01% respectively and are not reliable. It frustrates me that so many environmentalists are still against hydro because it alters ecosystems when nature itself is inherently violent, dangerous and in a constant state of flux.…

Hydro not just alters ecosystems. It also kills a lot of people in construction and maintenance accidents.

As you point out, it's vital they're well-constructed, but so far we've not done very well in that respect. E.g. nuclear is far safer per unit of energy output.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#136

Post by yawz » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #100

unprepare wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

theres also religious folks who believe the earth was created specifically for humans, and so everything here is for us and us alone. I find it a rather disgustingly self centered ideology. To presume that one (or ones species) is the most important thing in the world (or universe) is basically the definition of narcissism

Consider: earth may well be the only habitable planet in our galaxy. In that case its nearer the truth to consider it a gift just for us.

Our brains seek patterns in coincidences. It's evolutionary! We can't stop seeking causal explanations in things that we experience. Nothing is a gift. Life is not fair. Universe doesn't care about us. :)

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#137

Post by DasIch » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

jefurii wrote: post #52

Feels like the article was written by a pro-renewable reporter and edited by an oil-company exec. "Yeah they did it but you should be discouraged instead of hopeful."

It shows both sides and they're important to consider. You don't need to be in favor of oil or any fossil fuel to see that there remains a vacuum that needs to be filled somehow.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#138

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #100

unprepare wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

theres also religious folks who believe the earth was created specifically for humans, and so everything here is for us and us alone. I find it a rather disgustingly self centered ideology. To presume that one (or ones species) is the most important thing in the world (or universe) is basically the definition of narcissism

Consider: earth may well be the only habitable planet in our galaxy. In that case its nearer the truth to consider it a gift just for us.

Earth being the only habitable planet is incredibly improbable.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#139

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:53 PM UTC

yawz wrote: post #136

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider: earth may well be the only habitable planet in our galaxy. In that case its nearer the truth to consider it a gift just for us.

Our brains seek patterns in coincidences. It's evolutionary! We can't stop seeking causal explanations in things that we experience. Nothing is a gift. Life is not fair. Universe doesn't care about us. :)

...but we can care about 'our' planet. That works.

Re: Costa Rica has gone 76 days using 100% renewable electricity

#140

Post by AnAfrican » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 3:55 PM UTC

sabertoothed wrote: post #76

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes think they reject the idea that the whole point of existence is human flourishing and happiness. Yes, many people reject this idea. As a matter of fact, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone express this idea.

Especially "_human_ flourishing and happiness". Why only human? Why not the well-being of all conscious creatures?

because in many cases, the well-being of other conscious creatures is attained by reducing the well-being of some humans.

it's also quite interesting that the humans who should make sacrifices for the well-being of other creatures are usally not the ones asking for it.