Freedom of association is not evil.
Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
381–390 of 403 posts
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems you are simply asserting the truth of your position, as though it is axiomatic that property rights trump all other rights. Person A says, "I don't have a right to dictate how other people use their person and property, except to prevent them from violating my person or property" Person B says, "I don't have a right to dictate how other people use their person and property, except to prevent them from violat…
One is the basis of a stable social order, and one is not. Once you abandon the principle of private property and self-ownership, then human rights just become a popularity contest, about which values and attitudes are acceptable (not polygamy, but yes homosexuality! Not white racial awareness, but yes other groups' ethnic/racial awareness!). It's not a viable principle to base a justice system on. It will inevitably…
The evidence for your system isn't very good. Without government protections from discrimination, large portions of the population were oppressed, lynched, falsely imprisoned, denied jobs, education, rights, healthcare (and much more), and consigned to poverty.
An important question is, why would anyone desire to see others oppressed and abused, that they would defend the power to do it?
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope, still fine even then. You do realize that if I rent out a room in my home (say, for a year's lease), I can discriminate on any basis I so choose?
Not if you're in the U. S.
Got a source on that?
https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA#roommates
Under federal Fair Housing law, the prohibition on discriminatory advertisements applies to all situations except the following:
Shared Housing Exemption -- If you are advertising a shared housing unit, in which tenants will be sharing a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area, you may express a preference based upon sex only. Private Club and Religious Exemptions -- A religious community or private club whose membership is not restricted based upon race, color, or national origin may restrict tenancy only to its members in a property that it owns, and may advertise to that effect. Housing for Older Persons Exemption -- As discussed below, certain complexes for elderly persons are exempt from prohibitions on familial status discrimination, including the prohibitions on discriminatory advertising.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed completely. This is why shared home adverts are exempt from FHA regulations.
This is not true. Rather than dig through the FHA for you, Craigslist's interpretation is easier to reference: https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA
Rather than dig through the link you just cited, I'll quote the relevant bit:
Under federal Fair Housing law, the prohibition on discriminatory advertisements applies to all situations except the following:
Shared Housing Exemption -- If you are advertising a shared housing unit, in which tenants will be sharing a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area, you may express a preference based upon sex only. Private Club and Religious Exemptions -- A religious community or private club whose membership is not restricted based upon race, color, or national origin may restrict tenancy only to its members in a property that it owns, and may advertise to that effect. Housing for Older Persons Exemption -- As discussed below, certain complexes for elderly persons are exempt from prohibitions on familial status discrimination, including the prohibitions on discriminatory advertising.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if there was a reputation threshold for a traveller to make an instant booking? Of course it's still not immune to racism or sexism, but it seems that it would provide a decent buffer against it.
That would be great if you could come up with a good way of measuring "reputation".
That's what reviews are for, unfortunately as hosts, in the current environment of rapid expansion by AirBnB, it works out to typically 75% of inquiries are from new users with no reviews. So there is very little to go by when accepting people to sleep in your home with you.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with you -- Uber succeeded for many of the same reasons. They found a weak, fragmented, and hyper localized regulatory environment (very similar to that of hotels) that they could overwhelm with global scale after building up in a few "friendly" markets. I suspect Google was trying to do the same with Google Fiber, but found the opposition (in the form of AT&T / Verizon / Comcast / TWC / Charter / Cox) was to…
I agree with the idea that there are inefficiencies, unfairnesses, externalities in the "legit" way of operating short term rentals. But there are many hotels without 24/7 customer service, where the front desk is closed after 10pm and you get to call a number with urgent needs (like plumbing failures or whatever), etc. And they are cheaper than typical hotels, as are typical bed and breakfasts as compared to the bou…
I think we're saying the same thing. :)
I don't feel Airbnb is particularly innovative on the technology side; they're just exploiting a combination of inefficiencies in government regulatory mechanisms and the naivete of inexperienced landlords.
There are plenty of horror stories about houses being trashed, etc. that professional landlords will cover with insurance (and that add to the price of a rental). By not being experienced enough to cover themselves, many renters expose themselves to a huge amount of risk. As the horror stories propagate, they will look to reduce their risk in other ways such as discriminating against renters that they have pre-existing biases toward.
Given the amateur nature of their landlords, I don't see a real way for Airbnb to stop this type of discrimination other than by providing insurance coverage -- which, of course, would significantly raise the prices of Airbnb rentals and likely force many hosts who are already operating illegally (i.e. against the terms of their leases) from the market. No insurance company in the world would be willing to underwrite a policy for damages that are already prohibited under an existing contract.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with , you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone. This isn't about your home; this is about your use of your home as a capital asset. You can allow into your home anyone you choose to and bar anyone you choose to. But as a society we have agreed that we--through our government--most certainly have a stake in making sure that you treat oth…
[If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with, you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone.] Why? If someone chooses to discriminate, why not let them suffer the consequences of lost potential revenue naturally? It gives people who don't discriminate a chance to step in and gain market share. It reminds me of the story of the bakery who wouldn't make a wedding cake for a gay coup…
This seems naive. The market will not automatically reward the non-discriminatory actor.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm deeply confused as to how you misinterpreted my comment so much. I was explicitly referring to (2) which is why I quoted that in full. That's also why I explicitly said "So if I'm renting out my home on AirBnB, If you are renting your home (and not merely some portion of it), you aren't occupying at the time you are renting rooms or units in it, so (2) doesn't apply; (1) might, were it not for the limitations i…
Lock an "owner's closet" and have intention to return to the building as your permanent residence, and I believe you meet all needed aspects of 2 to have it apply. Certainly if I rented part of a duplex where I lived in the other half, #2 applies. #2 continues to apply even while I'm at work, if I go out to dinner, or go on vacation.
Fortunately we have these things called "courts" that are able to apply reason and nuance in combination with logic, with human beings called 'judges' that are able to comprehend a difference between someone who went out to dinner and someone who locked a broom closet to try and falsely claim residence at a property.
You're not the first person who has tried to falsely claim residence at a property, it's a very common way to commit tax fraud by claiming homestead exemptions. The courts won't even entertain this sham for a single second.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with , you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone. This isn't about your home; this is about your use of your home as a capital asset. You can allow into your home anyone you choose to and bar anyone you choose to. But as a society we have agreed that we--through our government--most certainly have a stake in making sure that you treat oth…
[If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with, you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone.] Why? If someone chooses to discriminate, why not let them suffer the consequences of lost potential revenue naturally? It gives people who don't discriminate a chance to step in and gain market share. It reminds me of the story of the bakery who wouldn't make a wedding cake for a gay coup…
Now what happens when (not if) people decide to encourage businesses to discriminate by withholding business from the ones that don't, or worse? This actually happened in the US and because defectors were punished it's not something that was going away nicely on its own.
Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I meant by that was individual liberty and the ability to make your own choices and decisions. Government meddling in that in this case is forcing people to do something they are uncomfortable with simply because they paid money while simultaneously running the risk of legal action if at any point you want to abort the transaction. The most basic example is akin to forcing somebody to sign a contract without kno…
We've tried allowing this kind of thing, and what we got was redlining, "No colored allowed" and "Dogs and Irish keep off the grass." If complying with anti-discrimination law is a problem for you, you should generally not be in this line of business.
You're conflating personal choice with discrimination. A contractual engagement between two people should ALMOST always be a matter of choice.
A business that you can walk into off the street should ALMOST never be able to discriminate.
I say almost in both cases because absolutes are the tools by which rules are abused.