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Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

theguardian.com

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Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#181

Post by Broken_Hippo »

samfisher83 wrote: post #93
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most American students learned about it and knew that picture..." I'm 38: We didn't learn much about the Vietnam war, honestly. The sections on everything from the 50's onward were very short, and sometimes glossed over due to time constraints. I think we had one teacher tell us that it was simply because not enough time had passed since it happened, which always seemed ridiculous to me. It is kinda like we knew it…

If you took AP history they went through Regan.

I can't remember if I took AP or advanced history (I don't remember if they offered AP in that class at that school or if I simply didn't do the test). It would have been the 94-95 school year since seniors took government and econ. Considering the lag time for updating books, they might not have gotten through much of Reagan's stuff. It was during Clinton's first term, so Reagan would have been out of office less than 8 years. Short section if anything. Timing is everything.

I remember 3 books for summer reading, and a different project was having a somewhat historically accurate journal of someone moving west. She taught with a college book, and we had to buy it instead of rent the book.

But the same thing. Emphasis was much earlier, and by the end of the semester or school year, the stuff was glossed over. The information about things so current became more of an overview without so much information.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#183

Post by newscracker »

Facebook is very arbitrary in its censoring and account deactivation decisions. Many cases I have read about are instances where Facebook is in the wrong and does not provide users a way to get things resolved (perhaps these instances surface online more often or more prominently).

Every time I read about Facebook's decisions, I feel extremely frustrated and downright angry. Humans need an alternative to Facebook that's not as evil and can get better traction (no, this does not mean everyone closing their FB accounts and switching to email or text messaging). I'm waiting for that to happen.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#184

Post by nine_k »

shabda wrote: post #108
awinder wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Facebook a media outlet as opposed to, say, a private gathering place like a mall or movie theatre?

Because it is becoming the predominant way people consume media. If it were only used by 10% of its current use, it shouldn't be, but it current levels it should. As Stalin said "quantity has a quality all its own".

Referencing Stalin in a media freedom context is, well, so liberal.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#185

Post by JadeNB »

wslh wrote: post #142
RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #28

If you're a Facebook user and you are unhappy with the way the company strongarms, censors and manipulates its audience, the most effective way for you to express this dissatisfaction is to close your account, block social media bugs and encourage your friends and family to do the same. Facebook doesn't care how you feel when you use their service; their bottom line simply depends on your contribution to the statisti…

> ...the most effective way for you to express this dissatisfaction is to close your account... I think the most effective way is to share the photo. I just share the The Guardian article with the photo.

> I think the most effective way is to share the photo. I just share the The Guardian article with the photo.

Let's imagine that we could mobilise everyone to take your course of action, or RodgerTheGreat's (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12462067).

Do you really think that anyone in a position of power in Facebook is personally opposed to this photo, at least to the extent of feeling moved to change policy if it is shared a lot? (Also remember that, if they do feel so strongly about it, then Facebook has the power to remove it at will.)

On the other hand, don't you think that everyone in a position of power at Facebook cares if they lose users, especially en masse?

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#186

Post by jlmorton »

jMyles wrote: post #133
bjt wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PM didn't post the photo. Someone else did. The PM posted a criticism saying Facebook should "review its editing policy". And then Facebook deleted that. I can concede that there could be good reasons to pull the photo. But I don't see good reasons to pull the PM's post. I don't like any organization having so much power to make criticism about itself disappear.

> I can concede that there could be good reasons to pull the photo. Yeah?

Sure. Facebook is not a history book. It's a social network with kids on it.

Napalm girl is a powerful photo. So are photos of Aushwitz. So too are photos of trench warfare. Saddam Hussein's hanging is historically important, as are all the images of children killed in Aleppo, or drowned families washing up on shores in Italy.

That doesn't mean we need all these things on Facebook.

I'm sensitive to censorship, and Facebook is a powerful and important platform for sharing, but I'm not prepared to say every photo of historical significance must necessarily be allowed.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#187

Post by JadeNB »

justsaysmthng wrote: post #63
RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #28

If you're a Facebook user and you are unhappy with the way the company strongarms, censors and manipulates its audience, the most effective way for you to express this dissatisfaction is to close your account, block social media bugs and encourage your friends and family to do the same. Facebook doesn't care how you feel when you use their service; their bottom line simply depends on your contribution to the statisti…

> is to close your account, block social media bugs and encourage your friends and family to do the same. Much easier said than done. First, there is no way to 'close' your account - you can only 'deactivate' it. I did it in July, but then I noticed that a lot of social activities - like concerts, festivals, parties, etc, are organised using Facebook so if you're not on it, you can't participate. This is very frustra…

> I did it in July, but then I noticed that a lot of social activities - like concerts, festivals, parties, etc, are organised using Facebook so if you're not on it, you can't participate.

They are organised this way because it is an effective way to organise them; so the only sure way to stop them being organised this way is to make it ineffective (by not participating, by urging others not to do so, and, crucially, by making your reasons known to the organisers). It is true that not using Facebook is an inconvenience, but there is no guarantee of a right to protest without inconvenience!

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#188

Post by splawn »

ythl wrote: post #113
splawn wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First you make an absurd statement as absolute fact, but now its "debatable". It looks to me like you are backtracking. HTTP came out of CERN... what exactly is it you want to debate about?

It's not an absurd statement, it's the truth. Europe can't compete with American web tech (and probably even software in general). Think about it. In your day to day dealings with computers, what percentage of the software you use is American/European? I'm betting it's something like 99:1 (unless you try to make the claim the Linux is Finnish even though the majority of the developers for it are American and the crea…

Most software and languages I deal with are open source and the names I see associated with them seem very european to me. Im also pretty sure that these are the same tools that my fellow american developers that you are putting on a pedestal use as well. Just walk away, you really are backing yourself into a corner.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#189

Post by nine_k »

jeremiep wrote: post #121
RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #28

If you're a Facebook user and you are unhappy with the way the company strongarms, censors and manipulates its audience, the most effective way for you to express this dissatisfaction is to close your account, block social media bugs and encourage your friends and family to do the same. Facebook doesn't care how you feel when you use their service; their bottom line simply depends on your contribution to the statisti…

It would take hundred of thousands of people to make a dent in Facebook that way. Having a handful of people in the right committees will have a much, much bigger impact than years of dissatisfied users ever will. (Same goes for manifestations and every other mass movements)

Don't make a dent in Facebook. Make a change in your own life, and maybe lives of your friends.

There is a number of large things that you might not like. The smallest effective thing you can do is to not be a part of such things, to prevent them from consuming your mental resources and from defining any bits of your agenda.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#190

Post by elorant »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #160
elorant wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many users, abandoning Facebook is like abandoning the web. So no matter what shit Facebook will pull they're not gonna leave, unless something better appears. From the other hand, this whole situation is a bit ludicrous. The journalist doesn't seem to understand how Facebook works and is directly attacking Zuckerberg like he explicitly asked to remove the picture. Come on guys, it's just an algorithm that detect…

Technically it's possible to have an index of all images published is some registered media and assume they are already vetted by editors of that media. Then you compare the published picture and voila - you do not have this problem at all. Of course, it adds some costs, but it's exactly what M.Zuckerberg can decide to spend money on (before delivering this service to people in Africa and other places where it's easy…

It’s not that simple. What about artistic nude for example? Would you allow a picture like the following, which could have appeared in dozens of art related magazines? https://www.saatchiart.com/art/Photography-vision/84309/2880...

I think that it’s much more safe to prohibit all nudity than nitpicking what to allow and what not. There are TBs of pictures uploaded daily on Facebook, it’s not a trivial task.

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