Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#151

Post by ythl » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:37 PM UTC

Grangar wrote: post #139

ythl wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because all of Europe sucks at making good web tech for some reason. Seriously - look at the top 100 websites in the world; not a single one produced by Europe[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_websites Edit: Downvote all you want. I'll redact my statement if someone can show me that Europe does not suck at making web tech. But you can't, because Europe is not competitive in the web tech…

Spotify? Soundcloud? American ignorance at its finest.

It's not competitive. Obviously every once in a while Europe will be able to make a popular web app. But for every European example I can give you 20 American examples.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#152

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:37 PM UTC

Grangar wrote: post #139

ythl wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah because all of Europe sucks at making good web tech for some reason. Seriously - look at the top 100 websites in the world; not a single one produced by Europe[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_popular_websites Edit: Downvote all you want. I'll redact my statement if someone can show me that Europe does not suck at making web tech. But you can't, because Europe is not competitive in the web tech…

Spotify? Soundcloud? American ignorance at its finest.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#153

Post by GavinMcG » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

pi-rat wrote: post #91

fil_a_del_fee_a wrote: post #31

I honestly think it was an algorithm that flagged it.

Pretty sure you would have a manual step for important verified people. Imagine the PR disaster if an algorithm removed a post by Obama.

Now I'm curious what would happen if Obama posted a similar response, including the photo.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#154

Post by EdSharkey » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

It would be neat to have a decentralized social network simply to avoid the editorial demands of the walled garden. I think we'd have a lot more unsavory content making its way to people's eyes though. There'd need to be more sophisticated ways of filtering information than just "unfriend", I suppose. And people would need to have tougher skins for it to work.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#155

Post by sp332 » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:38 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #21

I'm torn. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression mean that the government can't put you in prison or punish you for saying or believing what you do. Facebook aren't the government, they're a private entity and don't have to host anything they don't like- including hosting photos that they don't like. It's a walled garden, and it's their walled garden, and if you don't like it you're welcome to leave. And on the…

We need a Magna Carta for corporations.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#156

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #140

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #28

If you're a Facebook user and you are unhappy with the way the company strongarms, censors and manipulates its audience, the most effective way for you to express this dissatisfaction is to close your account, block social media bugs and encourage your friends and family to do the same. Facebook doesn't care how you feel when you use their service; their bottom line simply depends on your contribution to the statisti…

For many users, abandoning Facebook is like abandoning the web. So no matter what shit Facebook will pull they're not gonna leave, unless something better appears. From the other hand, this whole situation is a bit ludicrous. The journalist doesn't seem to understand how Facebook works and is directly attacking Zuckerberg like he explicitly asked to remove the picture. Come on guys, it's just an algorithm that detect…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#157

Post by soundwave106 » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:39 PM UTC

tdb7893 wrote: post #12

maxxxxx wrote: post #2

I always find it interesting that no level of violence is deemed inappropriate in the US but nudity has to be avoided at any cost.

To be fair it is child nudity in this case, which has different legal ramifications in some situations. Also the views on nudity vary a lot from person to person in the US.

Honestly to me it's more Facebook in this case; of the larger social networks, they tend to be one of the more restrictive when it comes to nudity in general. This hard-nosed attitude has come back to bite them on occasion. (See: the long-running "breastfeeding pictures censored" controversy.)

I wonder how much Facebook rely on algorithms to do their filtering these days. This is one of those cases where I can easily see those algorithms scanning the image and detect "child nudity!", resulting in the takedown. Algorithms aren't great at knowing context yet. (Even not every human reviewer would know context, even though it is pretty easy to reverse GIS and find out, oh, this is a Pulitzer prize winning photo...)

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#158

Post by blackoil » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:41 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #140

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #28

If you're a Facebook user and you are unhappy with the way the company strongarms, censors and manipulates its audience, the most effective way for you to express this dissatisfaction is to close your account, block social media bugs and encourage your friends and family to do the same. Facebook doesn't care how you feel when you use their service; their bottom line simply depends on your contribution to the statisti…

For many users, abandoning Facebook is like abandoning the web. So no matter what shit Facebook will pull they're not gonna leave, unless something better appears. From the other hand, this whole situation is a bit ludicrous. The journalist doesn't seem to understand how Facebook works and is directly attacking Zuckerberg like he explicitly asked to remove the picture. Come on guys, it's just an algorithm that detect…

The picture was removed by moderators, not algorithm. So Yes even though Zuckerberg did not delete the picture, he is responsible for acts and policies of the company.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#159

Post by red_admiral » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

awinder wrote: post #88

red_admiral wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's more effective to lobby your local member of parliament/congress to pass laws restricting what media organisations can or cannot do. Granted, by "more effective" I mean something like 0.1% instead of 0.01%, but it's worth a try.

Why is Facebook a media outlet as opposed to, say, a private gathering place like a mall or movie theatre?

Facebook arguably has a monopoly position in the way that your local mall, movie theatre or newspaper does not.

If I don't like the Times, I can read the Guardian instead. If I don't like what's on at one cinema, I can go to another (granted this may be harder in a small town with only one).

Of course I can close my facebook account and move to diaspora, but then I'd lose everything from keeping in touch with my friends' latest accomplishments to the schedule of my local hiking club.

I already find if I'm away hiking for a weekend without internet access and couldn't be bothered to catch up on facebook on Monday morning because there's already a pile of e-mails to deal with, at coffee break it's like I've missed some important social information that everyone else knows, because team member A has done something and posted about it on facebook and everyone else has been liking and commenting on it, and everyone expects you to be up to date with this. Without a facebook account you may as well wear a badge that says "antisocial".

I personally think governments should regulate media outlets in proportion to their influence on people's lives. FB is the new IE.

Re: Facebook deletes Norway PM's post as 'napalm girl' row escalates

#160

Post by ivan_gammel » Fri, Sep 09, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #140

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #28

If you're a Facebook user and you are unhappy with the way the company strongarms, censors and manipulates its audience, the most effective way for you to express this dissatisfaction is to close your account, block social media bugs and encourage your friends and family to do the same. Facebook doesn't care how you feel when you use their service; their bottom line simply depends on your contribution to the statisti…

For many users, abandoning Facebook is like abandoning the web. So no matter what shit Facebook will pull they're not gonna leave, unless something better appears. From the other hand, this whole situation is a bit ludicrous. The journalist doesn't seem to understand how Facebook works and is directly attacking Zuckerberg like he explicitly asked to remove the picture. Come on guys, it's just an algorithm that detect…

Technically it's possible to have an index of all images published is some registered media and assume they are already vetted by editors of that media. Then you compare the published picture and voila - you do not have this problem at all. Of course, it adds some costs, but it's exactly what M.Zuckerberg can decide to spend money on (before delivering this service to people in Africa and other places where it's easy to abuse Facebook censor mechanisms - ask Russian opposition how Putin's media warriors take down their posts).