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Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

nytimes.com

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Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#371

Post by Fraterkes »

dublinclontarf wrote: post #292
rayiner wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll put a sharper point on it: People must be governed.[1] People have an enormous capacity to be violent, racist, sexist, small minded, paranoid, greedy, and dishonest, and the whole point of government is to collectively overcome these failings. Obviously government cannot stop discrimination just as it cannot stop murder, theft, etc. But it can dramatically reduce it by imposing the proper social norms. [1] https…

No, the point of government is to protect your rights from violation by others. Those unalienable rights you are born with as outlined in the bill of rights. It's not to overcome the failings of humanity (an impossible task if ever there was one).

I wouldn't mind some governments trying harder to overcome the failings of humanity. More clearly approving certain kinds of behaviour may not change the minds of adults but at least sets a good example for children. The problem is of course that you have one culture deciding what constitutes a failing of humanity.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#372

Post by rspeer »

davidgay wrote: post #361
spaceflunky wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did Airbnb for my personal residence for a few years, I was a "Super Host" three years in a row. These policies, while officially new, have been slowly edged in for a while and is the reason why I no longer use Airbnb. Why? 1.) Airbnb is still a new concept to a lot of people. Hosts need to time to work with a guest to make sure they know how the arrangement is suppose to work. Airbnb use to have a 'respond within…

The thing that confuses me about AirBnB "vetting" is that I used VRBO for many years without any sign of vetting required. It was only on my first AirBnB that I had to fill in a "profile", explain why I was a "good" renter, etc. Why do AirBnB hosts need all this when VRBO hosts did not?

Huh. I've gotten "vetted" by VRBO hosts.

In fact I've usually had to try to negotiate with them over the phone as they suddenly jack up the price to twice what they advertised, or tell me that they made a mistake in the listing and they weren't actually available.

I don't even know why; I'm not part of any class that would usually be discriminated against. Maybe I sound young on the phone.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#373

Post by brbsix »

massysett wrote: post #263
spaceflunky wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did Airbnb for my personal residence for a few years, I was a "Super Host" three years in a row. These policies, while officially new, have been slowly edged in for a while and is the reason why I no longer use Airbnb. Why? 1.) Airbnb is still a new concept to a lot of people. Hosts need to time to work with a guest to make sure they know how the arrangement is suppose to work. Airbnb use to have a 'respond within…

Honestly, AirBnB is bidding you good riddance. They obviously want to be some big corporation competing with Marriott, Holiday Inn, etc. They aren't going to get there with people like you. They're going to get there by clearing the way for the professional "hosts" who are, in reality, setting up unlicensed hotels in apartment buildings. If AirBnB is going to get big, they need to have anti-discrimination policies. W…

> The sort of hosting you want to do is going to have to route through some informal mechanism, like an email list or word of mouth or some web forum, or maybe a random Facebook group. It's incompatible with a Bigcorp that wants to make money, lots of money.

Craigslist's sublet/temporary section is a pretty good place for this. I've found it works pretty well being able to rent a place for a few weeks while the owner is out of town/country. Obviously unlike AirBnB there is no false pretense of security, but that's fair enough seeing as how you (as owner/lessor) have the greatest incentive to look after that.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#374

Post by aminok »

MarkMc wrote: post #370
aminok wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why not treat 'right to live free of racial discrimination' as a human right? Because I don't have a right to dictate how other people use their person and property, except to prevent them from violating my person or property.

It seems you are simply asserting the truth of your position, as though it is axiomatic that property rights trump all other rights. Person A says, "I don't have a right to dictate how other people use their person and property, except to prevent them from violating my person or property" Person B says, "I don't have a right to dictate how other people use their person and property, except to prevent them from violat…

One is the basis of a stable social order, and one is not. Once you abandon the principle of private property and self-ownership, then human rights just become a popularity contest, about which values and attitudes are acceptable (not polygamy, but yes homosexuality! Not white racial awareness, but yes other groups' ethnic/racial awareness!).

It's not a viable principle to base a justice system on. It will inevitably lead to politics being turned into a venue through which groups fight to expand their power at the expense of others. This is hugely wasteful.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#375

Post by flukus »

aminok wrote: post #374
MarkMc wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you are simply asserting the truth of your position, as though it is axiomatic that property rights trump all other rights. Person A says, "I don't have a right to dictate how other people use their person and property, except to prevent them from violating my person or property" Person B says, "I don't have a right to dictate how other people use their person and property, except to prevent them from violat…

One is the basis of a stable social order, and one is not. Once you abandon the principle of private property and self-ownership, then human rights just become a popularity contest, about which values and attitudes are acceptable (not polygamy, but yes homosexuality! Not white racial awareness, but yes other groups' ethnic/racial awareness!). It's not a viable principle to base a justice system on. It will inevitably…

Marginalizing large groups of people is the basis for revolutions, not a stable social order.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#376

Post by aminok »

flukus wrote: post #375
aminok wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is the basis of a stable social order, and one is not. Once you abandon the principle of private property and self-ownership, then human rights just become a popularity contest, about which values and attitudes are acceptable (not polygamy, but yes homosexuality! Not white racial awareness, but yes other groups' ethnic/racial awareness!). It's not a viable principle to base a justice system on. It will inevitably…

Marginalizing large groups of people is the basis for revolutions, not a stable social order.

A group is going to revolt because racists don't want to associate with them? Seems unlikely.

I haven't seen evidence that private discrimination leads to revolution.

History is filled with examples of laws being passed to mandate segregation, and to discriminate against minorities, because the authorities were concerned about the fact that in the absence of such intervention, the majority demographic was mixing with a minority group through marriage and commerce.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#377

Post by greenleafjacob »

dmichulke wrote: post #365
URSpider94 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be racism, but it's certainly discrimination, in the sense that you are selecting who gets to conduct business with you based upon subjective criteria.

Whenever you - book a flight, - buy bread or milk, or - get a girl friend you discrimate in favor of one and against all others. Subjective discrimination is the only way to choose, discrimination is the sure consequence of your every choice.

What you are talking about is as far away from AirBNB as selling call options on AAPL on NASDAQ is to selling an iPhone on craigslist.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#378

Post by dublinclontarf »

Fraterkes wrote: post #371
dublinclontarf wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point of government is to protect your rights from violation by others. Those unalienable rights you are born with as outlined in the bill of rights. It's not to overcome the failings of humanity (an impossible task if ever there was one).

I wouldn't mind some governments trying harder to overcome the failings of humanity. More clearly approving certain kinds of behaviour may not change the minds of adults but at least sets a good example for children. The problem is of course that you have one culture deciding what constitutes a failing of humanity.

And that is one of the fundamental problems.

Another being(assuming we all agree on what a failing is) the rights you need to violate to attempt(and fail, because it will fail) to address that failing.

Better to leave people to themselves than inflict certain misery in a misguided attempt to remould mankind in your own image.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#379

Post by dublinclontarf »

rayiner wrote: post #344
dublinclontarf wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point of government is to protect your rights from violation by others. Those unalienable rights you are born with as outlined in the bill of rights. It's not to overcome the failings of humanity (an impossible task if ever there was one).

Even accepting the premise that rights are "endowed by the creator"--how does living a life free of discrimination not rank higher on the scale of fundamental rights than private property?

The argument is never about freedom from discrimination, but on what you are allowed to discriminate on.

Currently race and sex are nono's but religion and politics is ok.

Why should I face discrimination for my appearance when trying to get laid?

Surely the government should ban women and men from turning me down for sex because I'm not attractive.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#380

Post by criddell »

ndarilek wrote: post #255
criddell wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you see any problem with home owners saying no to those that require the assistance of a service animal?

Yes.

Then you and I would likely have a problem. I wouldn't let a dog into my house because of family members with severe asthma and allergy issues. My medical needs take priority over yours in my house.
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