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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#291

Post by Mz »

withdavidli wrote: post #288
__s wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shun women because if I casually mention saying something about having talked to a non male while my wife wasn't around the wife'll beat me. If I don't say anything about talking to non males then I'm hiding things, which never goes well if wife ever meets a non male coworker who doesn't describe me as super shy

This isn't a work place issue, it's a marriage issue. If your wife beats you for talking to women while she's not around, you need to document and prolly get a divorce. This is not okay.

But it is a valid point that this kind of drama at home impacts male behavior at work in a way that is exclusionary towards female colleagues and I appreciate the fact that some people are willing to admit it here.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#292

Post by vacri »

crapolasplatter wrote: post #193
vacri wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to start your own "ask a fat engineer" page. Other people don't have to cater their topics to your personal interests. Here, you can start an "ask a tall engineer" page with some comments from me: office chairs are too small and I have to shift posture constantly; communal desks are too low; and there's nowhere high enough to try a standing desk.

Nice, why the hostility? Nobody said anything about catering . I was curious on the importance of defining the individual as female , but leaving other non engineering characteristics out?

> Nice, why the hostility?

Because your original comment wasn't innocent or genuine, and you already know the answer to it. It's a comment that gets made every. single. time. something like this comes up, has been answered a million times before, and it's not worth pandering to.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#293

Post by Mz »

generic_user wrote: post #285
Mz wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that some women who would like to be there basically feel forced out. As you point out, active inclusion does not work. But reducing exclusion can help enormously. However, it isn't an easy thing to make happen.

There are thousands of Men that are 'forced out' of technology jobs every day due to not making the cut during there interviews or leaving for a long list of reasons. No one has shown that the general environment in technology focus businesses is more hostel to women then Men. It can be stressful and hostel to everyone equally. I believe that is the case. Woman have better options for careers in many professions with…

I appear to be the top ranked woman on HN. I have a Certificate in GIS. I have dealt with quite a lot of crap that I am confident is due to my gender.

I am aware that men are not welcomed with open arms merely for being male. But women can do everything "right" and find it still isn't enough.

It is a genuine and frustrating problem for me personally. It is a problem space I have worked on for some years.

I am sorry you remain unconvinced. It is extremely real to me.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#294

Post by munificent »

chiphammertime wrote: post #261
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a distinction to be made between "things are shitty for everyone, and men tend to handle it better" and "things are shitty for women in particular because of anti-female sexism". Like, construction work is also a shitty environment that's shittier for women. There's significant danger and hard physical activity, and for men are generally better able to handle that. The amount of women in construction may…

female construction worker and FOSS hobbyist here. I've been to tech conferences and do residential construction for a living. I'm a member of the local VFD. I'm familiar with predominantly male environments. I wish there were more women doing the things I love to do, but oh well. Predominantly male environments are much more verbally and physically confrontational than mixed ones, in my experience. So my presence is…

> I'm actually confused by your assertion that men are better able to handle danger.

When the poster said, "significant danger and hard physical activity, and for men are generally better able to handle that", they may have been saying that men are generally better able to handle the physical activity, and not necessarily the danger too. English is ambiguous about grouping clauses sometimes.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#295

Post by gwenzek »

houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

I think that would be the worst for a woman: working in an office where nobody talks to you in fear of being misinterpreted.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#297

Post by throwanem »

delroth wrote: post #287
throwanem wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, man. How many middle-aged white guys, or white guys, or just guys , have you seen hounded out of our industry by death threats and rape threats? I despise identity politics, but I kind of think you have to be trying pretty hard not to see that there's a problem here.

I think you don't see as many men "hounded out of our industry" because that's a property of how sensitive the person is and how much they're looking for drama, not really how many death threats they receive. I have personally received death threats multiple times after making "controversial" changes to an open source project I work on (as in: good in the long term for the project, bad in the short term for users). A…

I appreciate you taking the time, and I get where you're coming from. That's also a very poor comment of mine that you're responding to. I've left it as it stood because otherwise the longer one elsewhere in this thread would probably not make as much sense. That one may be more worth your while than the one to which you responded.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#298

Post by Mz »

gwenzek wrote: post #295
houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

I think that would be the worst for a woman: working in an office where nobody talks to you in fear of being misinterpreted.

I think that is a common experience for women. I find it really challenging to get men to engage me in meaningful, meaty discussion. Often, once they have, they suddenly are interested in a romantic liaison.

It's maddening.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#299

Post by kaybe »

1_2__3 wrote: post #260
kaybe wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice if implicit biases and subconscious prejudices just went away if we started to ignore them.

It'd be even nicer if people stopped being so judgemental that they no longer judge people's unrevealed thoughts and instead base their opinion on actions. Because telling people they have a secret and unknown racist/misogynist hiding inside them guiding them covertly is probably never gonna convince anybody to change their mind.

Current research shows this is not something you can just change your mind about because you want to, sadly.

But I agree, being confrontational will not fix things. At the same time, it being subconscious makes it not a single person's fault. One can and should do better than that, but if sub-ideal situations happen (within reason), it does not mean the person is bad. So actions can be judged with this in mind for now, and everyone can be less afraid to make mistakes.

Someone questions my abilities to drive the heavy car for a long distance, but never the guys'? Let's have a look at what is happening, laugh about it and correct for it. But it has to be out in the open.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#300

Post by ThrustVectoring »

chiphammertime wrote: post #261
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a distinction to be made between "things are shitty for everyone, and men tend to handle it better" and "things are shitty for women in particular because of anti-female sexism". Like, construction work is also a shitty environment that's shittier for women. There's significant danger and hard physical activity, and for men are generally better able to handle that. The amount of women in construction may…

female construction worker and FOSS hobbyist here. I've been to tech conferences and do residential construction for a living. I'm a member of the local VFD. I'm familiar with predominantly male environments. I wish there were more women doing the things I love to do, but oh well. Predominantly male environments are much more verbally and physically confrontational than mixed ones, in my experience. So my presence is…

By "better able to handle danger" I meant that they're more willing to do risky behavior. Like, part of doing a dangerous job is deciding that it's worth doing, and men are more likely to do so in spite of the risk.

Essentially, I'm blaming part of the construction work gender disparity on the same thing that explains why only 14% of motorcycle riders are female.

>just because a job is physical doesn't mean that men are better at it.

Sure. I'm definitely not saying that women can't or shouldn't do physical jobs. Averages and distributions exist, though, and testosterone is a hell of a drug.

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