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Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

nytimes.com

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Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#281

Post by grillvogel »

usaphp wrote: post #259

I've recently used airbnb services for the first time, I stayed in Pasadena, the apartment was nice and everything but the ceiling fan was installed below safety height of 7', when I was taking off my shirt before going to sleep the spinning fan blade hit my arm pretty badly and broke down falling a feet away from my toddler son, host charged me 160$ (for a fan blade) for the damage and I had to pay it even thought I…

i remember reading an article about someone who used an unsafe tire swing at an airbnb and died, but who needs regulations? this is about sharing and disrupting!

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#282

Post by gcr »

dilap wrote: post #6

I don't know if this is really a tractable problem. At the end of the day, either airbnb lets hosts decide who stays or doesn't. If they don't let hosts decide, they'll likely lose a ton of hosts, since having someone stay in your home is a very personal thing and a huge risk. If they do, then they're going to have significant discrimination problems as long as people are discriminatory, i.e., basically forever.

It absolutely is a tractable problem.

Check out this article, which details some very simple UI tweaks that reduce racism on NextDoor, a neighborhood watch community: http://fusion.net/story/340171/how-nextdoor-reduced-racial-p...

Even simple things like requiring posters to give more details when their posts mention race can go a long way of improvement for that platform.

There certainly must be some low-hanging fruit that's applicable to airbnb.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#283

Post by spaceflunky »

massysett wrote: post #263
spaceflunky wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did Airbnb for my personal residence for a few years, I was a "Super Host" three years in a row. These policies, while officially new, have been slowly edged in for a while and is the reason why I no longer use Airbnb. Why? 1.) Airbnb is still a new concept to a lot of people. Hosts need to time to work with a guest to make sure they know how the arrangement is suppose to work. Airbnb use to have a 'respond within…

Honestly, AirBnB is bidding you good riddance. They obviously want to be some big corporation competing with Marriott, Holiday Inn, etc. They aren't going to get there with people like you. They're going to get there by clearing the way for the professional "hosts" who are, in reality, setting up unlicensed hotels in apartment buildings. If AirBnB is going to get big, they need to have anti-discrimination policies. W…

> Honestly, AirBnB is bidding you good riddance.

Yeup. Airbnb told me to "go fuck myself" a long time ago. It was fun well it lasted I suppose.

Brilliantly written comment I must say. Everything you said was spot on.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#284

Post by dajohnson89 »

massysett wrote: post #263
spaceflunky wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did Airbnb for my personal residence for a few years, I was a "Super Host" three years in a row. These policies, while officially new, have been slowly edged in for a while and is the reason why I no longer use Airbnb. Why? 1.) Airbnb is still a new concept to a lot of people. Hosts need to time to work with a guest to make sure they know how the arrangement is suppose to work. Airbnb use to have a 'respond within…

Honestly, AirBnB is bidding you good riddance. They obviously want to be some big corporation competing with Marriott, Holiday Inn, etc. They aren't going to get there with people like you. They're going to get there by clearing the way for the professional "hosts" who are, in reality, setting up unlicensed hotels in apartment buildings. If AirBnB is going to get big, they need to have anti-discrimination policies. W…

What percentage of their current revenue do you think comes from large, commercial operations (as opposed to single family homes ... maybe a side property being rented out)? No idea myself, but I would imagine comfortably under 50%....so it's hard to believe AirBnB aiming for this kind of pivot on the customer base, especially the one that got them to where they are today.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#285

Post by rayiner »

hackuser wrote: post #254
Chronic9q wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my home and I do what I want. If you're black and I don't like you, I have every right not to let you into my house, no matter your history. You cannot debate this statement.

I disagree with how the question is framed, around whether someone can do these things: People can do all sorts of bad things; they can mentally abuse their children, they can gamble away all their family's assets, cheat their co-workers and customers, they can hate and do many other things to ruin their lives, their family's, their neighbor's, their country's and the world's. People have the right to turn the U.S. i…

I'll put a sharper point on it: People must be governed.[1] People have an enormous capacity to be violent, racist, sexist, small minded, paranoid, greedy, and dishonest, and the whole point of government is to collectively overcome these failings.

Obviously government cannot stop discrimination just as it cannot stop murder, theft, etc. But it can dramatically reduce it by imposing the proper social norms.

[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Igooxb4D1c

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#286

Post by sokoloff »

dragonwriter wrote: post #79
yummyfajitas wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm deeply confused as to how you misinterpreted my comment so much. I was explicitly referring to (2) which is why I quoted that in full. That's also why I explicitly said "So if I'm renting out my home on AirBnB, or even a full floor of a 4 family brownstone...". Maybe, but neither of the links you provide are "on this topic", (to wit, the legality of discriminatory renting via a commercial intermediary like AirBnB…

> I'm deeply confused as to how you misinterpreted my comment so much. I was explicitly referring to (2) which is why I quoted that in full. That's also why I explicitly said "So if I'm renting out my home on AirBnB, If you are renting your home (and not merely some portion of it), you aren't occupying at the time you are renting rooms or units in it, so (2) doesn't apply; (1) might, were it not for the limitations i…

Lock an "owner's closet" and have intention to return to the building as your permanent residence, and I believe you meet all needed aspects of 2 to have it apply.

Certainly if I rented part of a duplex where I lived in the other half, #2 applies. #2 continues to apply even while I'm at work, if I go out to dinner, or go on vacation.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#287

Post by arielb1 »

tptacek wrote: post #207
Unklejoe wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with, you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone.] Why? If someone chooses to discriminate, why not let them suffer the consequences of lost potential revenue naturally? It gives people who don't discriminate a chance to step in and gain market share. It reminds me of the story of the bakery who wouldn't make a wedding cake for a gay coup…

Because we tried that and it didn't work. It wasn't a single decision that resulted in redlining that forced all the black people in cities to under-served slums. It was an aggregation of millions of personal decisions, many of them by otherwise reasonable people who were simply responding to the very powerful human cognitive bias of loss aversion. So, as a society, we decided to do what can to foreclose on that path…

Why loss aversion? People don't want a black person in their home because they believe that black people are more likely to mess up their home than white people. They would rather not rent out their home at all.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#288

Post by sokoloff »

DanBC wrote: post #69
yummyfajitas wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law, if you read it, pretty clearly does NOT apply to AirBnB (except possibly people who rent a large number of flats on it). From 803(b): (b)Nothing in section 804 of this title (other than subsection (c)) shall apply to--(1) any single-family house sold or rented by an owner:... (It's a long section, I've snipped most of it. Section 804 is what you quoted.) (2)rooms or units in dwellings containing living quart…

> rent a large number of flats on it Where "large" means "more than one". And not always that. If they own two, live in one but lease the other they're not allowed to discriminate on protected characteristics.

I believe if the two units are attached to either other (such as in a duplex or triple-decker), then they are allowed to discriminate on any basis they choose.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#289

Post by tim333 »

jasode wrote: post #12

>Airbnb said it would also accelerate the use of instant bookings, which lets renters book places immediately without host approval. Maybe I'm naive but it seems like that policy would be perceived by hosts as extremely hostile. Homeowners have both a financial and emotional vested interest in their homes so letting strangers book it without a cursory check isn't going to work. Having no checks would work for real es…

Instant bookings have been going for a while and it's basically a business decision for the host as to whether to accept them. More hassle and risk but more bookings. They probably appeal more to people who are doing airbnb as a business rather than letting their home for a week.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#290

Post by sokoloff »

tptacek wrote: post #217
wyager wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we decided to amend the social contract to remedy this Where in the social contract is this clause? I can't find it. "It's in the social contract" is the ultimate weasel appeal. You're citing the authority of an imaginary document that, miraculously, contains whatever arbitrary moral edicts the person who invokes it happens to agree with. Transactions should be voluntary. People should not be forced to do business a…

There's nothing imaginary about it. Discrimination in housing has been illegal since the 1970s. Airbnb has found (accidentally) an unforeseen loophole in the law, where a practice that had only a marginal impact on the distribution of housing is on track to make a more significant impact. They know as well as anyone else that the law is going to catch up, unless they keep human nature from using Airbnb as a vector to…

> Discrimination in housing has been illegal since the 1970s.

Certain types of discrimination are illegal since then. Others are not. That's the point being debated here.

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