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It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

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Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#281

Post by grahamburger »

JamesBarney wrote: post #271
grahamburger wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here here, that's me. Not going away any time soon. It's not exactly sexy but it pays the bills and there's plenty of demand. I didn't even know PHP before I started on this journey at the beginning of the year. I was trying to peddle my (admittedly meager) Python skills but everyone who had money to pay wanted boring PHP devs to maintain and build on 7-10 year old systems, so I brushed up and landed a few nice stabl…

I've been thinking of specializing in maintenance of super boring old systems. I was wondering Is there much of a higher end market for it(100-200/hr)? And did you find one client for full time or a bunch of smaller gigs at 5-10 hours a week?

I have one main client that will basically pay me hourly as much as I'm willing to work for them, but then I also try to take at least 2-3 other clients on each month just for diversity. The smaller clients I typically charge by project rather than by hour, and so far I've been able to get my rate on those after the project is done in the lows 100s/hour range. For me personally I don't know that I could get my schedule completely full of work like that, but it might be possible I suppose.

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#283

Post by JamesBarney »

api wrote: post #89
oldmanjay wrote: post #5

I'm over 40 and I've been continuing to get more work than I can handle by staying up to date on my tech skills. Maybe that professional headshot I never got would help, though.

In my experience older devs really fall into two categories with a pretty sharp division between them. One group has continued to learn and keep up with their skills. These developers are extremely skilled and experienced and can in many cases be far more productive than younger developers with more shallow knowledge. What they lack in appetite for workaholism they make up for in ability to do more with less work and…

There is a very large body of knowledge that in software that isn't technology, and doesn't expire. This form of knowledge is consistently underrated by both younger devs, and management.

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#284

Post by nfriedly »

rubicon33 wrote: post #270
daxfohl wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're young and single I'm guessing. What you say seems logical. However, saving enough money for yourself to retire (I have) is one thing, but then when the kids come and need braces, school stuff, extracurriculars, college, health insurance, etc., they're pretty well screwed if their parents can't find a job. Especially these days with people waiting longer to have kids, the 40-year-old employability cutoff is a p…

If you don't mind me asking, how have you saved enough to retire? Worth asking also might be, how many years have you been saving for? Bay area housing costs seem to make saving very difficult. I'm not sure I'll be able to retire before 40

Not sure if you were asking me or daxfohl, but I've always been a saver. I got serious about it maybe 8-10 years ago. My savings rate has been trending upwards during that time, it's around 40-45% of my take-home pay now.

I spent a year in the Bay area, but moved back to Ohio for family reasons. That helped, because things are so much less expensive out here. (Bear in mind, though, you can work in the Bay Area and then retire somewhere cheaper ;)

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ has some great articles on how to save money while still enjoying life.

My top piece of advice is: do not buy a brand new car. Don't buy any car if you can manage it, but if you must own one, get something that's a few years old and half as expensive. And even then, try to ride a bicycle when possible.

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#285

Post by cheez »

20yrs_no_equity wrote: post #147
albertop wrote: post #107

I find it fascinating that when there is a discussion about age discrimination, most commenters have "advice" for the old farts how to stay current, learn current hip tech, be willing to work longer hours etc. However, we we talk about women in computing, it is always sexism and the discussion is about how the corporations need to change to attract more women. Pretty asymmetrical, don't you think?

And of course the funny thing is, I'm an "old fart", I have been levelling up for the past 20 years. I put the first Elixir app into production before Elixir hit 1.0- I'm staying current. I work long hours, for startups, I can handle that intensity. The assumption that we're slower, out dated and unwilling to put the hours in is kinda prejudicial. Some of us may be, but TBH I see a lot of foolishness, wasted time and…

So how do you find work then? Are you a consultant?

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#286

Post by Bartweiss »

daxfohl wrote: post #257
Bartweiss wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The line that stood out most in that article was the woman saying "Every job I've had I got through my contacts, but they're all gone now". It had never occurred to me, but it's obviously a huge problem for older job seekers. If you're 33, you might get a job using a recommendation from someone who managed you a decade ago. If you're 53, that same person retired years ago and doesn't have any pull to offer. And someo…

I think a few corollaries to that are: Stick with big companies. Yes by working at a small co you gain experience picking tech stacks, working on all areas of software, etc. But the ceiling is lower at small companies (only the very hottest couple startups each year notwithstanding). And the experience you gain there (mostly writing simple CRUD apps in various languages) isn't so applicable to larger companies where…

This all looks like really good advice.

I'm doing the small(er) company thing, and I don't regret it, but I've slowly shifted to larger groups and I definitely feel the difference. Getting exposure to lots of different things is good, but at a certain point being in charge of maintaining the website while you're also building an actual product is just a distraction.

The "current tech" thing is obviously a constant battle for everyone, and it's an important one. Narrow tools can be trouble, flash-in-the-pan frameworks are ugly, and even things like Go can be chancy if you master something valuable but scarcely employed. At the very least, it's obvious to me even early in my career that I need to maintain a couple of mainstream, in-demand skills no matter what I specialize in.

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#287

Post by dba7dba »

20yrs_no_equity wrote: post #259
dba7dba wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just software companies practicing age discrimination. I heard from a friend of a friend who worked at a very well known, trendy space rocket company. He recounted youngish engineers in a meeting would comment how they don't want to see too many with gray beard in the company...

The funny thing is, when I was 20, and working for startups, I saw so many startups shoot themselves in the foot with the idea that "we need to hire a grey hair, or the investors won't take us seriously". And then they would hire a non-technical CEO.

From what I understood, the comment was directed at hiring more engineers. Not HR, finance, ceo or cxx. The youngish engineers were commenting (maybe joking ?) that they didn't want to see engineers with gray beard...

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#288

Post by rubicon33 »

nfriedly wrote: post #278
daxfohl wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're young and single I'm guessing. What you say seems logical. However, saving enough money for yourself to retire (I have) is one thing, but then when the kids come and need braces, school stuff, extracurriculars, college, health insurance, etc., they're pretty well screwed if their parents can't find a job. Especially these days with people waiting longer to have kids, the 40-year-old employability cutoff is a p…

I'm in my 30's, married, have a son, and a mortgage. But I also have enough savings to pay off my mortgage in full today if it was an urgent need.

... how? Either your mortgage is very small, or you have somehow managed to save an incredible amount of money. It's really the latter that I'd like to know more about.

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#289

Post by tropo »

So here I am, at a place willing to hire these people, but actually getting them hired isn't so easy.

First of all, yes, you do need to leave Silicon Valley. People seem strangely afraid to leave. There is a world out here! Getting houses for 10% of what they cost is Silicon Valley has got to be worth something, no?

Second of all, finding them is tough. We can show up at a large college and meet lots of people, nearly all young. There is no similar place where we can show up to recruit older people.

Older people have the skills we need, particularly assembly language. We have to sort through lots and lots of young people to find a few with potential, but at least "lots and lots" is available at many colleges.

Re: It’s Tough Being Over 40 in Silicon Valley

#290

Post by rubicon33 »

nfriedly wrote: post #284
rubicon33 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, how have you saved enough to retire? Worth asking also might be, how many years have you been saving for? Bay area housing costs seem to make saving very difficult. I'm not sure I'll be able to retire before 40

Not sure if you were asking me or daxfohl, but I've always been a saver. I got serious about it maybe 8-10 years ago. My savings rate has been trending upwards during that time, it's around 40-45% of my take-home pay now. I spent a year in the Bay area, but moved back to Ohio for family reasons. That helped, because things are so much less expensive out here. (Bear in mind, though, you can work in the Bay Area and th…

"... you can work in the Bay Area and then retire somewhere cheaper"

Yes but, while working in the Bay Area you have to live in the Bay Area (assuming you aren't remote). I'm just super curious how we're supposed to save enough to be safe by 40.

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