Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#191

Post by abritinthebay » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:29 PM UTC

dilap wrote: post #6

I don't know if this is really a tractable problem. At the end of the day, either airbnb lets hosts decide who stays or doesn't. If they don't let hosts decide, they'll likely lose a ton of hosts, since having someone stay in your home is a very personal thing and a huge risk. If they do, then they're going to have significant discrimination problems as long as people are discriminatory, i.e., basically forever.

Sure, they'll let the hosts decide - and then if/when a host violates these rules they can ban the host for breaking the rules.

Basically it gives specific consequences to hosts being bigoted. Good.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#192

Post by eropple » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:31 PM UTC

wyager wrote: post #184

tptacek wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they're going to lose hosts over this. In fact, if they don't, that's evidence that they're not serious about it. A lot of people hosting through Airbnb shouldn't be .

"If you have personal preferences about whom you let live in your home that don't align with mine, you shouldn't be allowed to have anyone in your home at all!"

If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with, you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone.

This isn't about your home; this is about your use of your home as a capital asset. You can allow into your home anyone you choose to and bar anyone you choose to. But as a society we have agreed that we--through our government--most certainly have a stake in making sure that you treat others equitably in your business transactions, and that that use of your home as a capital asset in a business transaction means you forego other rights in the process.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#193

Post by ebola1717 » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:33 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #157

vkou wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only freedom the ideal of USA is supposed to grant you is freedom from too much government meddling. Really? Which amendment is that one? There are a few prominent restrictions on particular kinds of government meddling in the US. This by no means generalizes to the rest of it.

Which amendment is that one? The Tenth: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Of course this is a dead letter because of a misinterpretation of the Commerce Clause, but there it is. If the Constitution didn't literally give the federal government a power, it doesn't have that power.

Ok there George Wallace

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#194

Post by nicolas_t » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:33 PM UTC

pascalmemories wrote: post #112

nicolas_t wrote: post #107

As an host, I'll never discriminate on the basis of religion, sex orientation, color of skin, national origin or gender identity. When it comes to disability, I might refuse someone whose disability would cause risk in using the apartment and might have an accident because the apartment is not safe for someone who's disabled (the building is 300 years old, there's no elevator, the stair in the duplex apartment doesn'…

If I understand correctly, you're happy to be the one discriminating against disabled people, old people and people with children. But you're not happy if you're on the receiving end of any discrimination. Don't you see the contradiction there ? Anti-discrimination policies are about ensuring people have equal access to services and facilities (whether it's contentious toilets or hotels or whatever). You seem to indi…

The main thing, is that I'm not a professional renter. The primary use of the apartment is for myself almost half of the year. I also rent more than half of the time outside of airbnb on Homeaway...

In the jurisdiction where I'm renting, there's no requirements for handrails. The requirements for short terms rental are basically the same as the requirements for renting an apartment long term and not all apartments are disabled friendly... It's also in an historical district, even if we wanted to we would never get the permit to install an elevator...

Also, I've never said I wouldn't accept old people. If they have no disabilities that would present a risk for them, they're welcome.

If I owned a hotel, I would have rooms with disabled access of course. But, it's different when you're renting the apartment that is also your habitation (which is the original purpose of Airbnb)...

Now, that said, I fully support laws that force businesses to accommodate people with disabilities. I also think that any new buildings should be built with this in mind. But are we going to destroy historic old buildings because they don't conform to the current regulations?

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#195

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:34 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #192

wyager wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you have personal preferences about whom you let live in your home that don't align with mine, you shouldn't be allowed to have anyone in your home at all!"

If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with , you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone. This isn't about your home; this is about your use of your home as a capital asset. You can allow into your home anyone you choose to and bar anyone you choose to. But as a society we have agreed that we--through our government--most certainly have a stake in making sure that you treat oth…

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#196

Post by Noos » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:37 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #8

well people should have figured out by now : Airbnb's aren't hotels. And people should be free to deny others staying at their place, for whatever reason. Airbnb can't have it both ways, they know it and this effort will be pure PR.

The problem is that this is all actually very murky, and at some point someone is going to sue an AirBnB host for discriminating. There's a lot of people saying stuff here, but ultimately liability will be judged and assessed by a court when a case comes up. And to be honest, a lot of these renters are going to look a lot more like independent contractors than anything.

All it will take is one case and judgement against the host, and AirBnB suddenly looks even less attractive. Bad enough your house can get trashed, but for you to lose all your profit having to defend yourself in court or settle out of it won't make it attractive.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#197

Post by bitL » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:37 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #189

bitL wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about WhiteBnB. It's about WhomeverIWantBnB. I am white, European, affluent, from a popular country and was rejected many times by AirBnB hosts (most of them blacks or women), so what? I looked elsewhere. It's really their right to provide accommodation to whomever they wish, it's their property. If AirBnB doesn't want them, they'd go elsewhere and AirBnB will go the way GitHub is going. Most hosts are featu…

> If AirBnB doesn't want them, they'd go elsewhere and AirBnB will go the way GitHub is going. So, exactly where it is now? I know it's super popular in regressive circles to think that GitHub is somehow failing because fffffemninisms , but it's also untrue. > I really think US is now getting to a completely different extreme - why should be whites and men so severely disadvantaged? We're not. Claims to the contrary…

You probably noticed that many of the most talented developers are idealistic and support meritocracy. Then you see the guys that created GitHub and made it lovable by those top guys, getting unceremoniously kicked out. Maybe it's a good business for a while, but many of those brightest developers move away and the best projects will grow elsewhere. So that's for your "regressive circles". It's a simple lack of justice for those guys.

You are probably a high-income white male. Now imagine how your life would be were you a low-income white male with a dadbod-shape. Not everyone is as lucky as we are (for the record, I am affluent, very tall, athletic, popular amongst girls) - I see plenty of these problems amongst my less lucky friends and frankly I reject this stupid game of taking care only of myself and not helping people around me. I know this is un-american, but I couldn't care less.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#198

Post by runako » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #185

runako wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why should be whites and men so severely disadvantaged Where, exactly, would one be able to objectively measure this disadvantage using published data?

The thing is that nobody cares if a white male experiences any sort of problems with anyone, but the moment a black person or a woman says something, everybody rushes in. Now we see white males in blue collar jobs are committing suicide in huge numbers and many checked out of society completely (unemployment + gaming, porn) as they don't see any point to be involved as they are invisible to women in their 20s and get…

> Does this really seem fine to you?

You're attributing to me emotions I did not express. Obviously, because I didn't offer an opinion on anything in my question.

>There are now many women-only places/clubs but the same is denied to men in the US.

This is demonstrably false, and can be disproved with Google in seconds.

But I'll surmise you aren't all that concerned with the existence of women's social clubs as a counterpoint to men's social clubs. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and guess that your concerns are likely about something more substantive.

I was just asking where one can objectively measure the severe disadvantage of white men in America. A disadvantage so profound surely would be obvious in data of education, political power, wealth, or employment, or the like.

Your contention is at odds with what I would have guessed based on having lived my life in America. So: what publicly-available data set would you use to exhibit this severe disadvantage?

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#199

Post by wyager » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #192

wyager wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you have personal preferences about whom you let live in your home that don't align with mine, you shouldn't be allowed to have anyone in your home at all!"

If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with , you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone. This isn't about your home; this is about your use of your home as a capital asset. You can allow into your home anyone you choose to and bar anyone you choose to. But as a society we have agreed that we--through our government--most certainly have a stake in making sure that you treat oth…

>If you have personal preferences about whom you conduct business with, you shouldn't be allowed to conduct business with anyone.

Let's go for the obvious example; Jewish business owners should be forced to do business with neo-nazis?

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#200

Post by exclusiv » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 8:43 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #99

exclusiv wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree even if AirBnB is the booking driver. 1) AirBnB has a history of poor support for hosts that have troublesome renters. 2) AirBnB does a terrible job screening renters. 3) This could be easily used against a host improperly. I had a group of sorority girls that wanted to book my house. They told me they had almost 40 women so I declined. I don't have a problem with women but this could be used against me in a…

Let's say someone is bigoted and they own a company - if you're a potential employee in a group they dislike, do you really want to spend your days in their workplace? Also, what are the chances that the bigoted employer is going to provide a good experience or career progression when required? ...so we're cool with dropping employment discrimination laws too?

You're comparing employment with staying at someone's HOME.