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Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

nytimes.com

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Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#181

Post by hackaflocka »

dilap wrote: post #6

I don't know if this is really a tractable problem. At the end of the day, either airbnb lets hosts decide who stays or doesn't. If they don't let hosts decide, they'll likely lose a ton of hosts, since having someone stay in your home is a very personal thing and a huge risk. If they do, then they're going to have significant discrimination problems as long as people are discriminatory, i.e., basically forever.

The idea of forcing owners to let people who are not compatible, stay with them, is ridiculous.

I'm Indian and smell of curry (probably... at least a few times a month). If someone hates the smell of curry, they should be allowed to blanket disallow Indians from staying.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#182

Post by tptacek »

dilap wrote: post #6

I don't know if this is really a tractable problem. At the end of the day, either airbnb lets hosts decide who stays or doesn't. If they don't let hosts decide, they'll likely lose a ton of hosts, since having someone stay in your home is a very personal thing and a huge risk. If they do, then they're going to have significant discrimination problems as long as people are discriminatory, i.e., basically forever.

It's almost as if maybe people shouldn't be treating their homes as if they were commercial lodging enterprises.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#183

Post by gist »

nicolas_t wrote: post #107

As an host, I'll never discriminate on the basis of religion, sex orientation, color of skin, national origin or gender identity. When it comes to disability, I might refuse someone whose disability would cause risk in using the apartment and might have an accident because the apartment is not safe for someone who's disabled (the building is 300 years old, there's no elevator, the stair in the duplex apartment doesn'…

> Similarly in term of age, I would not rent to couples with young children because it's too risky.

I am not sure age matters with children at all since they don't have legal status and can't enter into contracts etc. So on that basis alone it's a non issue. Meaning it wouldn't be discrimination.

In other words you can't get in trouble for refusing to hire someone who is 10 years old because legally you can't hire them anyway. Likewise if there is some other rule w/o respect to age discrimination (lodging) since they have no legal status (and the parent would be renting) it really wouldn't matter that age was the issue. Would be the same really as "I don't rent to people who wear yellow shirts".

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#184

Post by wyager »

tptacek wrote: post #174
brightball wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my thought here as well. It's one thing to have very public businesses with anti-discrimination rules, but something like Air BnB where people have to decide in most cases who they are going to let into their homes is a much more complicated problem. We're seeing a wide trend in the US where people want rules to prevent people from making choices that they don't agree with, which was basically the opposite o…

Yes, they're going to lose hosts over this. In fact, if they don't, that's evidence that they're not serious about it. A lot of people hosting through Airbnb shouldn't be .

"If you have personal preferences about whom you let live in your home that don't align with mine, you shouldn't be allowed to have anyone in your home at all!"

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#185

Post by bitL »

runako wrote: post #178
bitL wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about WhiteBnB. It's about WhomeverIWantBnB. I am white, European, affluent, from a popular country and was rejected many times by AirBnB hosts (most of them blacks or women), so what? I looked elsewhere. It's really their right to provide accommodation to whomever they wish, it's their property. If AirBnB doesn't want them, they'd go elsewhere and AirBnB will go the way GitHub is going. Most hosts are featu…

> why should be whites and men so severely disadvantaged Where, exactly, would one be able to objectively measure this disadvantage using published data?

The thing is that nobody cares if a white male experiences any sort of problems with anyone, but the moment a black person or a woman says something, everybody rushes in. Now we see white males in blue collar jobs are committing suicide in huge numbers and many checked out of society completely (unemployment + gaming, porn) as they don't see any point to be involved as they are invisible to women in their 20s and get automatic scorn whenever they are accused of something. There are now many women-only places/clubs but the same is denied to men in the US. Does this really seem fine to you?

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#186

Post by tptacek »

wyager wrote: post #184
tptacek wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they're going to lose hosts over this. In fact, if they don't, that's evidence that they're not serious about it. A lot of people hosting through Airbnb shouldn't be .

"If you have personal preferences about whom you let live in your home that don't align with mine, you shouldn't be allowed to have anyone in your home at all!"

Yes, that is generally the principle involved with business transactions like these.

We tried it the other way, and all the black people ended up cordoned into North Lawndale.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case...

As a society, we decided to amend the social contract to remedy this. You can choose who to have in your house based on any criteria you like. You cannot choose who to rent to on the same terms.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#187

Post by Canada »

chimeracoder wrote: post #170
spaceflunky wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'm renting out my personal residence. Why should we lump hotels and my apt into the same bucket? They are different types of businesses. I think it's unreasonable to say that all home-sharers must act like hotels.

> I think it's unreasonable to say that all home-sharers must act like hotels. First, Airbnb hosts are not "sharing" their homes. They're renting them out for financial profits. Second, the name is literally Air bnb , as in "Bed and Breakfast". Most B&Bs don't get anything close to that amount of information, and it's illegal for them to discriminate on the basis of protected classes, just like hotels.

> First, Airbnb hosts are not "sharing" their homes. They're renting them out for financial profits.

Respectfully, I disagree. If you allow someone to stay in the home you live in while you're away, to sleep in your bed, to cook in your kitchen, drink from your cups, and so on, you are most definitely sharing your home. It doesn't matter if you profit or not for that to be true.

I know a lot of Airbnb hosts aren't doing this. They're renting out places they never lived in. There's a big difference.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#188

Post by wonder_er »

pascalmemories wrote: post #112
nicolas_t wrote: post #107

As an host, I'll never discriminate on the basis of religion, sex orientation, color of skin, national origin or gender identity. When it comes to disability, I might refuse someone whose disability would cause risk in using the apartment and might have an accident because the apartment is not safe for someone who's disabled (the building is 300 years old, there's no elevator, the stair in the duplex apartment doesn'…

If I understand correctly, you're happy to be the one discriminating against disabled people, old people and people with children. But you're not happy if you're on the receiving end of any discrimination. Don't you see the contradiction there ? Anti-discrimination policies are about ensuring people have equal access to services and facilities (whether it's contentious toilets or hotels or whatever). You seem to indi…

OP said "The idea of the host (who was prejudice against OP's wife) receiving my money was galling".

OP wasn't complaining about the discrimination, he was complaining about _doing business with the person who discriminated_.

Wildly different things.

Laws (or rules) don't exist in a vacuum, and blindly following them is dumb. If a company rolls out a bad rule, you can either follow it, ignore it, or try to change it.

Just because it exists means nothing.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#189

Post by eropple »

bitL wrote: post #172
kevinpet wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would probably be pretty unsuccessful. Who's going to use and recommend WhiteBnB to their friends? Well, yeah, neo-nazis. But that's a pretty niche market and AirBnB only works if they are big enough to make the two sided market work.

It's not about WhiteBnB. It's about WhomeverIWantBnB. I am white, European, affluent, from a popular country and was rejected many times by AirBnB hosts (most of them blacks or women), so what? I looked elsewhere. It's really their right to provide accommodation to whomever they wish, it's their property. If AirBnB doesn't want them, they'd go elsewhere and AirBnB will go the way GitHub is going. Most hosts are featu…

> If AirBnB doesn't want them, they'd go elsewhere and AirBnB will go the way GitHub is going.

So, exactly where it is now?

I know it's super popular in regressive circles to think that GitHub is somehow failing because fffffemninisms, but it's also untrue.

> I really think US is now getting to a completely different extreme - why should be whites and men so severely disadvantaged?

We're not. Claims to the contrary are indicative of self-adopted persecution complexes and mistaken beliefs in zero-sum sociology. Source: straight white male in one of the most liberal parts of the United States and doing just fine.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#190

Post by spaceflunky »

chimeracoder wrote: post #170
spaceflunky wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'm renting out my personal residence. Why should we lump hotels and my apt into the same bucket? They are different types of businesses. I think it's unreasonable to say that all home-sharers must act like hotels.

> I think it's unreasonable to say that all home-sharers must act like hotels. First, Airbnb hosts are not "sharing" their homes. They're renting them out for financial profits. Second, the name is literally Air bnb , as in "Bed and Breakfast". Most B&Bs don't get anything close to that amount of information, and it's illegal for them to discriminate on the basis of protected classes, just like hotels.

Screening guests =/= racism

I, personally, am not arguing that discrimination isn't wrong (though some other threads have clarified the actual legality). I'm just saying that the methods Airbnb has chosen to prevent said discrimination also make it impossible for me to host and those methods are shaky at best.

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