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Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

themacro.com

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Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#51

Post by jonkiddy »

houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

There is a difference between "water cooler/coffee" as compared to going to a "coffee shop". When I read the article I thought "water cooler/coffee".

I'm regularly asked to "go get a cup of coffee" which is a two-minute walk down the hall to the Keurig machine and we end up talking about family, sports, etc. If another colleague were present, I would have no problem asking a female colleague if they wanted to "get a coffee" with us. For me it would be socially awkward if it were 1-on-1. And I wouldn't dare ask a female colleague to a coffee shop.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#52

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

wmeredith wrote: post #26

On attending a meeting as a female engineer... "I immediately figure out who is likely to hear me out based on our previous interactions. Then I’ll purposefully sit somewhere near those allies. If I’m feeling less confident when I’m speaking, I’ll look at them first. I’m less likely to even speak up in meetings where I don’t feel like I have supportive people. I don’t often feel like I’m not heard at meetings, but I…

Because any aspect of the human condition as experienced by women, or minorities, or anyone really, is a problem unique to that sub-group. Apparently. And needs to be explicitly called out as a problem.

I don't get it. I mean, as a middle-aged white guy in an affluent society with social welfare and healthcare I've never experienced anything uncomfortable, of course. Never experienced anything unpleasant.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#53

Post by Swizec »

roflc0ptic wrote: post #44
houselouse wrote: post #19

> Invite women you work with for coffee No chance of this being misinterpreted. Invite women you work with for coffee and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, ask if there’s any way you could help make it better.

I'm reading this as sarcastic. While there's some remote chance this could be misinterpreted, there's a remote chance that talking to any woman at all at any point could be misinterpreted as prurient interest. It's sort of a boring point. Realistically, the conversation can go something like "hey, i'm going to the break area for coffee, wanna come?" ... "So how is your work going?" ... "Huh, that sounds ... Anything…

> you can have this entire conversation without bringing up that they're a woman

Exactly! Talk to them like they're a person. It's not that hard.

You'd be surprised how refreshing women find it when you talk to them like they're a person, not a "woman". At least based on what they've told me when I took that approach. Maybe they lied ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The idea is that you treat them like people, not like a bag of stereotypes.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#54

Post by crapolasplatter »

“Ask a Female Engineer”

Why leave other important engineering characteristics out? Are you fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white,or black?

I really don't see the importance of sex in relations to engineering.

Nor understand the desire to get more fat,skinny,tall,short,ugly,pretty , white, black , male or females involved in engineering.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#55

Post by andreasklinger »

tomc1985 wrote: post #38

The more attention you draw on diversity, the less diversity you receive. Diversity is supposed to be impartial and tolerant, yet it seems the prescribed approach is to carve out separate "spaces" for different feelings and situations. How is this building bridges in the so-called "gender divide"? True diversity is complete and utter impartiality. Why are we focusing on all these useless, pretty, inspirational soluti…

Being equal doesn't mean being the same.

I assume that the intend is to acknowledge differences and educate people about that these arent signals for the actual work.

Don't really like to judge/opinonate about this topic b/c i have never been on the negative spectrum of this problem but to reply to your point and why my above comment relates to it.

The sexist thoughts imo in the end come from the fact that we aren't exposed to alternatives, build our value systems with this skewed reality and judge with this biased value system.

As in: I have never seen a successful female XYZ => I am looking for the patterns i saw in the successful (male) ones => I judge the candidate based on the patterns i saw => I created another skewed reality/example for the next person to build their value system

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#56

Post by hnbroseph »

benclarkwood wrote: post #33

It is good to see YC trying to use its platform to move this discussion forward, but I think that the title of the series is inherently troublesome. Referring to women software engineers as female software engineers is reductive and dehumanizing. Men are not usually referred to as “males”. Frankly, it sounds like a Ferenghi.

> Men are not usually referred to as “males”.

citation needed, i guess. perhaps it's a background thing, as i've heard and used the terms "male" and "female" more frequently than "men" and "women" in my adult life. the latter set seems marginally "less serious" to me personally, though otherwise identical.

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#57

Post by tomc1985 »

andreasklinger wrote: post #55
tomc1985 wrote: post #38

The more attention you draw on diversity, the less diversity you receive. Diversity is supposed to be impartial and tolerant, yet it seems the prescribed approach is to carve out separate "spaces" for different feelings and situations. How is this building bridges in the so-called "gender divide"? True diversity is complete and utter impartiality. Why are we focusing on all these useless, pretty, inspirational soluti…

Being equal doesn't mean being the same. I assume that the intend is to acknowledge differences and educate people about that these arent signals for the actual work. Don't really like to judge/opinonate about this topic b/c i have never been on the negative spectrum of this problem but to reply to your point and why my above comment relates to it. The sexist thoughts imo in the end come from the fact that we aren't…

> As in: I have never seen a successful female XYZ => I am looking for the patterns i saw in the successful (male) ones => I judge the candidate based on the patterns i saw => I created another skewed reality/example for the next person to build their value system

"I have never seen a successful female XYZ" <-- why does 'female' or gender even need to be in that sentence? That's what I can't figure out. People are purposefully inserting gender considerations where they plainly do not belong. That's what needs to stop. Because WTF does being man or woman have anything to do with computers? Assuming one knows how to talk to computers, they don't care.... why should we?

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#58

Post by NTDF9 »

reitanqild wrote: post #20
NTDF9 wrote: post #14

Not trying to be sarcastic but how would the world respond if someone starts, "Ask a male engineer"?

Try rather with: "ask a male nurse". That is more comparable, i.e.: both are perfectly normal, but both are not too common for historical and possibly other reasons.

But I'm not trying to 'balance' anything out. Equality means equal regardless of gender.

So if one can have "Ask a female athlete", why not "Ask a male athlete". Your example is valid too.

This is a genuine question. How would it be unequal for males to start such a forum for anything they want?

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#59

Post by emilecantin »

> Once I was representing my company at a career fair with a male engineer. He and I were standing next to each other ready to take resumes and answer questions, but all the candidates lined up in front of him. I tried writing “SOFTWARE ENGINEER” in big letters on my name tag, but even then had to continuously tell people in line “I’m an engineer and can answer your questions too!”

Having been in a few career fairs, there _is_ a tendency for females to be HR, and males to be engineers. That's kind of sad, but the only way to reverse that trend is to have more male HR reps and more female engineers, so please continue going!

Re: Introducing “Ask a Female Engineer”

#60

Post by andreasklinger »

cbcowans wrote: post #5
minimaxir wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, missed that note in the intro. That's an approach I disagree with, especially since there are many female engineers who are willing to discuss these issues openly and would benefit from the exposure from The Macro/HN.

Absolutely, but we feel like there’s room for more than one approach here. Part of this experiment is to see whether anonymity on both sides allows for a freer discussion. That being said, if women who join the conversation would like to use their real names we'd be glad to post those.

Also those women might not want to diffuse their personal brand.

Eg. I imagine it to be quite hard to be primarily known for engineering work and not for "example for female in engineering"

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