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Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

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Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#151

Post by crpatino »

acconrad wrote: post #67
ivanhoe wrote: post #24

Donating blood has a very similar "boost" effect, and also helps save lives.

Unless the act of donating blood releases some endorphins because you're helping someone else, then this is just bloodletting or phlebotomy, which is considered pseudoscience by the medical community. [1] https://books.google.com/books?id=vH1EAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT293&dq=b...

So, it does not matter what physiological effects may be triggered by the lose of blood. Someone has already decided to label "bloodletting" as "unscientific", so no person that sees themselves as rational may investigate the phenomenon ever again?

In the words of the immortal Professor Quirrel (of HPMOR fame): "So the nasty Italian fascists believed that unity is stronger than division. Perhaps they also believed that the sky is blue, and advocated a policy of not dropping rocks on your head."

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#152

Post by timmytokyo »

markkat wrote: post #113
abarringer wrote: post #44

In my own experience day 3 of a water fast had profound effect on my health. I have some health issues so I closely monitor my blood pressure and blood sugar. On the morning of the fourth day my blood pressure and blood sugar would drop tremendously and stay normal for several months. ymmv

Just a personal anecdote, but I was getting colds and flu-like symptoms several times per year for years. People I knew often commented on how often I was ill. I did a 3-day fast two years ago, and haven't had much more than a scratchy throat for about two days since. It could be coincidence, but other people have noticed and commented on my healthier state. I haven't significantly changed my behavior otherwise.

I'm not doubting that what you say is true, but I wouldn't necessarily draw a simple cause-and-effect arrow between a single fasting event and your improved long-term health. The fact that you even began a fast suggests you became increasingly conscious of your health at that time and were looking for ways to improve it. Perhaps you also decided at that time -- maybe even subconsciously -- that a healthier lifestyle with better eating and sleep habits would be in your interest. In other words, there is a correlation between your fasting event and your improved health, but not necessary a direct causation.

This reminds me of the reasoning used by a lot of people who've made the link between autism and vaccines. "My child was vaccinated and shortly thereafter she became autistic!" Yes, but children are also vaccinated around the age when the first signs of autism become apparent.

Human minds are incredible pattern-matching machines. Unfortunately, they're so good at it that they often deceive themselves.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#153

Post by simonebrunozzi »

I know Valter Longo, one of the paper's authors.

Valter created a company, L-Nutra (http://www.l-nutra.com/), and donated his shares to a foundation to avoid any conflict of interest.

I have tried their product, Pro-Lon, twice, and I have been very pleased with the results.

Feel free to ask me anything if you're interested in learning more.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#154

Post by Pete_D »

NinoScript wrote: post #18

If I were to fast for that long, should I ingest anything other than water? Some vitamin supplements for example? Or maybe a bit of salt? Or is it really only water?

I am not a doctor.

On days I don't eat, I supplement various vitamins and electrolytes to minimize risks of refeeding syndrome[0] and heart problems[1,2]. I don't know how bad the risks are in practice for these for short fasts (I've only gone up to 3 days), but I am sufficiently paranoid that I supplement anyway. Supplementing electrolytes also means I don't get headaches, restless leg syndrome, or (as much) weak feeling in muscles, all of which I used to get when I tried unsupplemented water fasting.

I also try to break the fast with skim milk or yoghurt so that I'm not phosphate depleted (refeeding syndrome again).

For what it's worth, my supplement regime amounts to: a generic A-Z multivitamin, 800mg potassium chloride, 300mg magnesium citrate (it seems to be important that it's citrate for bioavailability reasons), 800mg calcium, and a B-vitamin complex (as I remember it, vitamin B1, or thiamine, is important when refeeding, for reasons I can no longer find).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome

[1] http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/34/4/453.short

[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6859052

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#155

Post by Pete_D »

imatworkyo wrote: post #43
baccheion wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ingesting anything will ruin the fast. Even brushing your teeth becomes tricky, as toothpaste can ruin everything. I ended up using a salt water solution (and an electric tooth brush) to do the job, but in hindsight, I could've used something like ToothSoap. It's extremely important to rinse the mouth thoroughly, so you don't swallow anything. It is possible to run low on vitamins (depending on how long you go). If i…

and whats wrong with eating too much - I understand that you say breaking the fast is important ... but why?

I'm not a doctor, but see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refeeding_syndrome

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#156

Post by jwdunne »

cableshaft wrote: post #96
mabcat wrote: post #10

Tim Ferriss has poked at the positive effects of intermittent fasting on cancer/health/longevity a bit. I found this interview with Dominic D'Agostino very informative: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-dagostino/ Also: http://fourhourworkweek.com/2008/03/02/postponing-death-calo...

What he argues makes some sense, but his total dismissal of IF paired with low-carb seemed counter-productive. "The one question that remains unanswered is whether or not the intermittent fast followed in a low-carbohydrate way will lead to these same problems. To me, that point is kind of moot. Why? Because I looked at the IF as a strategy that allowed me to eat a lot of high carb foods that I would normally avoid a…

I was reading a blog post by Dr Jason Fung that compared LCHF with IF. Conclusion was that LCHF is around 70% as effective as IF on insulin levels. You are still maintaining a low insulin level even on eating day, with a significant drop on fasting days. This should, by logic, have greater impact on insulin sensitivity due to long periods of low insulin levels.

His whole blog is quite interesting. His book, The Obesity Code, is a great and easy read.

https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/power-comparison-fast...

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#157

Post by reitanqild »

dsacco wrote: post #88
reitanqild wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You didn't consume anything but water for five consecutive days? Unpleasant at first but not dangerous to healthy individuals. As someone pointed out: if we wasn't capable of doing that we would likely have been extinct long ago.

TIL. I am not very knowledgable about the human limits of consumption, so this was pretty surprising to me.

I guess most of us will like to inform a close friend or significant other anyway :-)

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#158

Post by acconrad »

inputcoffee wrote: post #116
acconrad wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a fad, there is quite a wealth of research supporting it's efficacy[1][2][3]. That also doesn't mean you need to fast for 3 days straight to consider your fasting intermittent - you can go 16 hours without eating and still reap the benefits. Skip breakfast and concentrate your calories into lunch and dinner - now you are intermittent fasting. [1] http://easacademy.org/trainer-resources/article/intermittent..…

I read all three articles but I can't find where anyone claims that 16 hours of fasting are as beneficial as 3 days from the perspective of rebooting the immune system. Can you point that one out?

You're correct, there is no evidence to support boosted immune system (that I am aware of) for shorting fasting periods. However, there are a host of health benefits to fasting in general, which is why I wanted to dismiss the notion that it's simply a fad.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#159

Post by parasitius »

Retric wrote: post #79
ak39 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both. IF forces you to schedule fewer times to eat, so you eat less. But there are changes to the body when calories are restricted for 16 hour more. Hormonal changes that don't manifest when the body has regular insulin injected into the blood stream. It's both.

This is all short term studies. I ate once a day for over a decade, it just means you eat a large meal. If anything stretching your stomach makes over eating easier as you get used to large meals so eating an extra one is easily adds an extra days food. Worse, you end up getting pushed to calorie dense food. PS: My original thought was it would save a lot of time which it probably did.

My experience in the past 10 months has been 180 degrees opposite. My friends all know I eat once daily, and when we go to a restaurant with the perfect food to double-up on and pig out, I struggle to eat any more than anyone else eating just 1 meal of 3 for the day. I definitely feel my stomach has shrunk.

I'm down 40lbs, but have been at this weight since month 2. A much more athletic friend's experiences combined with mine, we are slowing reaching the conclusion that 1x / 24hr can help with weightloss when you are 20~80lbs overweight. But once you are under that you need to start on 48 hr fasts to make progress.

And calorie dense food? Ever since my paleo days 5 years back (a 1 yr experiment) I've continually eaten much more calorie dense foods on purpose, to reach satiety with greater ease. I will never, for example, consume whole milk. I drink straight glasses of half&half for the extra fat content and calories.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#160

Post by dazzawazza »

mattmanser wrote: post #66
dazzawazza wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly fast for 20+ hours (calorie restriction, I do drink water because I am not an idiot) once or twice a week. You get very used to it. While its not something I look forward to, it's purely psychological. A few hours after I miss 'breakfast' my tummy rumbles two or three times and then my body doesn't care anymore. The max time I've fasted is forty hours and I have to say if you can get past the first fours…

How is a 500-600 calorie meal 'very small'? Most normal dinners are 600-800 calories.

Sorry, the small refers to the physical volume of the meal.
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