The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM • Hacker News Board

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#101

Post by ngoldbaum » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:20 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #92

agentgt wrote: post #34

> Besides, with only Apple earbuds currently supporting the Lightning audio connection, the only way to connect an iPhone 7 to a recording or mixing device will be over the suboptimal Bluetooth connection or a dongle provided by Apple. If you are recording stuff from your iPhone using the 3.5mm jack you are already suboptimal perhaps even to the bluetooth. For one you are going through the iPhone DAC (luckily the iph…

> If you are recording stuff from your iPhone using the 3.5mm jack you are already suboptimal perhaps even to the bluetooth. This isn't true at all, unless your hardware is legitimately bad. All but the worst cables and amplifier chains can carry a 20 kHz signal (again, we're talking audio here -- that's basically D/C to modern electronics) at better than the ~45dB signal/noise ratio needed by the ADC on the other si…

Interesting, the reverse is true in my car, which probably says more about the stock head unit than anything.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#102

Post by jonlucc » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:20 PM UTC

jasonlingx wrote: post #78

You can still get a headphone jack via a lightning adapter which comes with every iPhone 7...

I'm not positive but I think that requires Apple to do that indefinitely (they won't) and/or to approve the third party lightning->aux adapters.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#103

Post by bitwize » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:22 PM UTC

frandroid wrote: post #87

wfo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has been very good at predicting (or perhaps directly causing) the demise of certain technologies: the disk drive, the CD drive, the ethernet port. They removed them much to the chagrin of many a loyal customer, and a few years later they nearly ceased to exist across the entire industry (we're still waiting on the ethernet port to go away but give it time). How many times will it take you forgetting your dongl…

> How many times will it take you forgetting your dongle to just pony up and buy the apple approved headphones? Or do like I would do, which is buy an Android phone. I mean they only have 88% market share, how long will _they_ be around?

When Apple removed the floppy drive, CD drive, and ports older than USB, everyone else followed.

What do you think is going to happen to Android phones' headphone jacks?

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#104

Post by rimantas » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:22 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #4

wccrawford wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that there are adapters that convert to that same old jack, and so you haven't really lost anything. Yet, anyhow. If they ever lock you down to only approved headphones, then we've got a real problem, and not just for being able to do what you want with your music.

You can control what songs can be decoded with what adapter. You can control the bit rate and quality. You can effectively make songs that only play on certain headphones or songs that play better quality when you have your beats plugged in. This isn't the first time this has been brought up this was the first thing everyone had in mind when the rumors about Apple ditching the headphone jack first appeared.

As if they cannot control what iPhone outputs to 3.5.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#105

Post by Yetanfou » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:22 PM UTC

That Apple wants their users to only use 'approved' peripherals with their stuff (i.e. only those from which they get a share of the profits) under the guise of 'user experience' and 'convenience' does not mean the rest of the world will suddenly give up on their analogue headphones. Apple users will be able to buy dongles (which have to be Apple-approved, so Apple will still get their share of the profits leading to higher prices which Apple-users are willing to bear to be part of that exclusive community) to connect their analogue headphones, the rest of the world will happily keep plugging those 3.5mm jacks into their phones and tablets and radios and other devices.

As an aside, what a strange creature is man that he wants to replace a device which is analogue by nature - ears not being digital after all - with a digital counterpart which is clearly sub-optimal, overly complex and fraught with potential restrictions. Meanwhile that same man will brag to his friends about the analogue turn table he purchased on which he plays his analogue records for that true analogue experience, claiming a much warmer sound that is clearly superior to that produced by digital players which 'chop the sound into bits which takes away from the experience'.

Bizarre, but profitable.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#106

Post by exabrial » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

Other people getting screwed: Custom IEM wearers. I had a $300 set of Alclair Audio IEMs made so I can use an in-ear audio system on stage while making live music. These use impressions that an audiologist takes of your ear canals for an _exact_ fit that completely seals your ear.

There's not a snow-balls chance in hell I would have these be wireless, or a proprietary standard:

1) Latency. Anything over 2ms is not acceptable for live music. That's the difference between a band sounding "in-time" to "needs practice"

2) We use various tablets, phones to control the mix to our ears, and sometimes in between sets, listen and review music.

3) Removing the 3.5mm pretty much means Apple is exiting professional audio because it's now incompatible with 100% of everything.

4) There is no way in hell my $300 pair of custom-molded IEMs bound to a standard that Apple is going to change in 3 years. Not only would I have to replace my IEMs, but any equipment that's not Apple would have to be updated to match. Not going to happen.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#107

Post by rimantas » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

zelias wrote: post #17

There's a lot of potential for anti-competitive practice here -- for example, Apple could theoretically prevent the Spotify app from transmitting audio over Bluetooth or Lightning, forcing users into the Apple Music ecosystem.

And why would they do that? You can listen to your Spotify as much as you want as long as you buy iPhone.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#108

Post by hood_syntax » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

mxfh wrote: post #72

sigmar wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why is that any different than the OS influencing what gets sent to the 3.5mm jack? Their issue seems to be that it is not analog. The lightening port and bluetooth connection are two-way data connections, and the phone will be able to identify what is attached (rather than just outputing an analog signal). Here's the quotes that make that clear- > But intentionally or not, by removing the analog port, Apple is givi…

So exclusive releases for specific hardware IDs are feasible. A not so far fetched Scenario extending on the exclusive iTunes release practice: Popular new Artist - New Album: Listen before everyone else exclusively on beats

I wish I could give you an award for prescience. I would bet money this is going to happen.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#109

Post by cr1895 » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

agentgt wrote: post #34

> Besides, with only Apple earbuds currently supporting the Lightning audio connection, the only way to connect an iPhone 7 to a recording or mixing device will be over the suboptimal Bluetooth connection or a dongle provided by Apple. If you are recording stuff from your iPhone using the 3.5mm jack you are already suboptimal perhaps even to the bluetooth. For one you are going through the iPhone DAC (luckily the iph…

>If you do care about quality recording you either tranfer content off the iphone, bypass the phone jack (aka amplifier), or bypass even the DAC (and get a stream directly). There are several products that already do this on the market for the existing iPhone.

More than several, also certainly not limited to iPhone. My external amp/DAC works through lighting-to-camera USB output.

I wouldn't be surprised if someday my amp/DAC wasn't supported through the existing lighting-USB adapter. Couldn't they restrict how digital sound is output from the iPhone? That is, restricting the use of what external DAC you can use.

Re: The End of Headphone Jacks, the Rise of DRM

#110

Post by anexprogrammer » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 4:25 PM UTC

agentgt wrote: post #34

> Besides, with only Apple earbuds currently supporting the Lightning audio connection, the only way to connect an iPhone 7 to a recording or mixing device will be over the suboptimal Bluetooth connection or a dongle provided by Apple. If you are recording stuff from your iPhone using the 3.5mm jack you are already suboptimal perhaps even to the bluetooth. For one you are going through the iPhone DAC (luckily the iph…

There was the Arcam rDock and drDock (sadly discontinued) with Burr-Brown DACS. It carried a disctintly audiophile price mind you. I know there's a few others out there.