Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#41

Post by tyoverby » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:18 PM UTC

heydenberk wrote: post #34

bobjordan wrote: post #11

Yeah, well after having a multi-day house party thrown in my Houston home by a local guy that had the gall to write "God Bless you" several times before the rental, and Airbnb doing nothing about the damages (huge scratches on brand new $5K bedroom suite, a frigging water-logged kitchen ceiling, cabinet doors torn off hinges, etc.) we will no longer rent to any local, of any race. Anyone that rents my house is going…

This is either largely unrelated to the original post or intensely problematic. You would do well to reconsider what you have written here and how it relates to the topic at hand.

Did you read the article?

> Airbnb said it would also accelerate the use of instant bookings, which lets renters book places immediately without host approval.

The fact that the author of your parent-comment does go through and approve individuals means that this policy would hurt him/her.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#42

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:18 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #19

bobjordan wrote: post #11

Yeah, well after having a multi-day house party thrown in my Houston home by a local guy that had the gall to write "God Bless you" several times before the rental, and Airbnb doing nothing about the damages (huge scratches on brand new $5K bedroom suite, a frigging water-logged kitchen ceiling, cabinet doors torn off hinges, etc.) we will no longer rent to any local, of any race. Anyone that rents my house is going…

That's not really relevant here. The article is specifically about racial discrimination.

What's relevant is that AirBnB is against the Freedom of Owners to select who stays at their place. In the end Owners should have the final word, no matter what, certainly not AirBnB.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#43

Post by runako » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:19 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #27

dilap wrote: post #6

I don't know if this is really a tractable problem. At the end of the day, either airbnb lets hosts decide who stays or doesn't. If they don't let hosts decide, they'll likely lose a ton of hosts, since having someone stay in your home is a very personal thing and a huge risk. If they do, then they're going to have significant discrimination problems as long as people are discriminatory, i.e., basically forever.

That was my thought here as well. It's one thing to have very public businesses with anti-discrimination rules, but something like Air BnB where people have to decide in most cases who they are going to let into their homes is a much more complicated problem. We're seeing a wide trend in the US where people want rules to prevent people from making choices that they don't agree with, which was basically the opposite o…

> very public businesses

One might argue that posting pictures of the interior of a residence, advertising it for rent by the night, and posting a price for such privilege is what makes a hotel a "very public business." (It's also why regulations apply to hotels.)

One might also wonder that if these properties make a hotel or B&B a public business, what's different about AirBnB rentals?

Sure enough, back in 1964 the US passed a law that defines (many/most) AirBnB rentals as places of "public accommodation":

"any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence. "

If the lessor isn't living there, it's a public lodging. (Also, it's not the lessor's "home" by virtue of the lessor not living there.)

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#44

Post by aikah » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:20 PM UTC

southphillyman wrote: post #30

I'm confused by the responses in here so far. How does discriminating based on race, gender, age, etc guarantee that your property will not be damaged? If you want the access and business that using AirBnb's platform provides then you need to adhere to their rules. Pretty simple. If that's a problem use craigslist or some other service so you can use whatever prejudices you have to screen guests.

> How does discriminating based on race, gender, age, etc guarantee that your property will not be damaged?

It doesn't but depending on where you are on the political spectrum it's either called "trust" or "prejudice". That's how people assess personal risk. While a legal hotel has proper insurance, do you really think that's the case for most airbnb rentals? furthermore an hotel manager doesn't have to sleep in the same room/appartement as his guest.

> If you want the access and business that using AirBnb's platform provides then you need to adhere to their rules. Pretty simple

The real question is whether these rules are seriously enforced or not. I bet they aren't, because most hosts are biased, like everybody else and airbnb business strategy is based on shifting risk upon hosts (and guests). If it wasn't the case it would only list legal hotels.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#45

Post by ekianjo » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

southphillyman wrote: post #30

I'm confused by the responses in here so far. How does discriminating based on race, gender, age, etc guarantee that your property will not be damaged? If you want the access and business that using AirBnb's platform provides then you need to adhere to their rules. Pretty simple. If that's a problem use craigslist or some other service so you can use whatever prejudices you have to screen guests.

AirBnB places are not hotels. In the end as an Owner you should be free to select whoever you accept, just like you are free to decorate your place the way you wish. It's down to personal preference because it's the Owner's place in the end.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#46

Post by 67726e » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #29

marknutter wrote: post #2

Doesn't discrimination end up hurting the hosts in the end? Having less demand drives the rental costs down.

It didn't hurt businesses in the American south enough to compel them to stop discriminating. I don't get it either, why would I turn down someone's money because they're black, but lots of people did and whatever economic pain they felt from it was apparently outweighed by the joy of being racist assholes.

I would guess some combination of feeling various minorities were filthy and not wanting to deal with them, and a network effect. Sure, you might make money letting rooms to a handful of blacks but you would likely then lose out on all the other racist white folk who don't want to use the same sheets as "one of those people". One can easily imagine it might have been economically harmful to NOT be a racist in those days.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#47

Post by pooper » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:22 PM UTC

ovis wrote: post #32

jasode wrote: post #12

>Airbnb said it would also accelerate the use of instant bookings, which lets renters book places immediately without host approval. Maybe I'm naive but it seems like that policy would be perceived by hosts as extremely hostile. Homeowners have both a financial and emotional vested interest in their homes so letting strangers book it without a cursory check isn't going to work. Having no checks would work for real es…

What if there was a reputation threshold for a traveller to make an instant booking? Of course it's still not immune to racism or sexism, but it seems that it would provide a decent buffer against it.

Nope. I would not ever rent a room with instant booking unless Airbnb signs a blank check for any damages by the guest (which it of course won't)

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#48

Post by dfox » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

amazingman wrote: post #26

bobjordan wrote: post #11

Yeah, well after having a multi-day house party thrown in my Houston home by a local guy that had the gall to write "God Bless you" several times before the rental, and Airbnb doing nothing about the damages (huge scratches on brand new $5K bedroom suite, a frigging water-logged kitchen ceiling, cabinet doors torn off hinges, etc.) we will no longer rent to any local, of any race. Anyone that rents my house is going…

I'm pretty sure your new personal rule-of-thumb isn't discrimination.

The problem is that it is. Any such rule of thumb is discrimination. Even if you had some magical way of knowing whether given guest will destroy your apartment with perfect certainty, using that to filter guests will still be discrimination.

Trying to eliminate discrimination always ends up by removing any kind of ability to choose your customer.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#49

Post by nanny » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:24 PM UTC

tyoverby wrote: post #41

heydenberk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is either largely unrelated to the original post or intensely problematic. You would do well to reconsider what you have written here and how it relates to the topic at hand.

Did you read the article? > Airbnb said it would also accelerate the use of instant bookings, which lets renters book places immediately without host approval. The fact that the author of your parent-comment does go through and approve individuals means that this policy would hurt him/her.

What evidence is there that instant booking guests are more destructive than others?

>The fact that the author of your parent-comment does go through and approve individuals means that this policy would hurt him/her.

How, exactly? It sounds like he talked to his destructive guest before the rental. So that particular guest was not an instant booking.

Re: Airbnb Adopts Rules in Effort to Fight Discrimination by Its Hosts

#50

Post by exelius » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:28 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #8

well people should have figured out by now : Airbnb's aren't hotels. And people should be free to deny others staying at their place, for whatever reason. Airbnb can't have it both ways, they know it and this effort will be pure PR.

I dunno; I feel Airbnb is really losing control of their product.

Most recently, I've noticed a lot of listings of great places for awesome prices... but only if you're willing to rent for 12 months continuously, provide your own furniture and pay a security deposit -- which is just a fucking apartment lease. It makes it hard to find "legit" rentals with so much of this kind of spam filling up the listings.

Worse yet, when I went to report such listings (since I'm pretty sure that's not what Airbnb is designed for), I couldn't figure out how to do it in the app. I get that companies want to operate with minimal overhead, but until their listing systems are run by AI that can outsmart unscrupulous humans, it makes their product shittier.