Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#111

Post by EGreg » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

yodsanklai wrote: post #48

xarope wrote: post #17

I tried searching for the original article, but this is the closest I could find that had a better writeup than from the telegraph: https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regene... This is the most relevant summary: "In both mice and a Phase 1 human clinical trial involving patients receiving chemotherapy, long periods of not eating significantly lowered white blood cell counts. In mice, fasting cycles…

> I'll pass on this intermittent fasting "fad" for now! It's amazing how people are prone to experiment with this type of things. They're willing to undergo a very unpleasant experience because it might (unlikely) give them a (slight) health improvement.

Well, read this:

https://gravityandlevity.wordpress.com/2009/07/08/your-body-...

and then consider that a slight change in one of the exponents could have a significant effect on a person's quality of life.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#112

Post by xutopia » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

vlehto wrote: post #71

acconrad wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a fad, there is quite a wealth of research supporting it's efficacy[1][2][3]. That also doesn't mean you need to fast for 3 days straight to consider your fasting intermittent - you can go 16 hours without eating and still reap the benefits. Skip breakfast and concentrate your calories into lunch and dinner - now you are intermittent fasting. [1] http://easacademy.org/trainer-resources/article/intermittent..…

So it's good for losing weight. But not anything magic compared to simply eating less?

Actually from what I understood about intermittent fasting it is way better than simply eating less.

I'm not a doctor but the mechanisms by which the body burns fat is that it has to send the proper signaling at a cellular level. If you listen to the video here starting at 1h03: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PdJFbjWHEU

Though the video is to understand how energy is used and stored for workout reasons it explains a bit the mechanism whereby the body decides to store fat or convert it to phosphates for semi-immediate use.

I'm convinced that intermittent fasting turns off the body fat storage mechanism and turns on the burn fat mechanism. Unfortunately if you only eat less you never send the signals to your body that it needs to stop storing fat. An intermittent fast is therefore way better than just eating less.

For me intermittent fasting means not eating breakfast and eating around 12h30. I've lost 14 pounds this way and I'm finding it really easy to skip a meal now where I couldn't do it without having a headache before.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#113

Post by markkat » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

abarringer wrote: post #44

In my own experience day 3 of a water fast had profound effect on my health. I have some health issues so I closely monitor my blood pressure and blood sugar. On the morning of the fourth day my blood pressure and blood sugar would drop tremendously and stay normal for several months. ymmv

Just a personal anecdote, but I was getting colds and flu-like symptoms several times per year for years. People I knew often commented on how often I was ill. I did a 3-day fast two years ago, and haven't had much more than a scratchy throat for about two days since. It could be coincidence, but other people have noticed and commented on my healthier state. I haven't significantly changed my behavior otherwise.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#114

Post by markkat » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

NinoScript wrote: post #18

If I were to fast for that long, should I ingest anything other than water? Some vitamin supplements for example? Or maybe a bit of salt? Or is it really only water?

I did water, a zero-calorie powerade, and a few pinches of salt. Not having any calories is the goal.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#115

Post by pc86 » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:03 PM UTC

markkat wrote: post #113

abarringer wrote: post #44

In my own experience day 3 of a water fast had profound effect on my health. I have some health issues so I closely monitor my blood pressure and blood sugar. On the morning of the fourth day my blood pressure and blood sugar would drop tremendously and stay normal for several months. ymmv

Just a personal anecdote, but I was getting colds and flu-like symptoms several times per year for years. People I knew often commented on how often I was ill. I did a 3-day fast two years ago, and haven't had much more than a scratchy throat for about two days since. It could be coincidence, but other people have noticed and commented on my healthier state. I haven't significantly changed my behavior otherwise.

It has to be a coincidence. I can't imagine what the health benefits of a single 3-day fast could be that they would be so massive as to change your entire health for years.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#116

Post by inputcoffee » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

acconrad wrote: post #65

xarope wrote: post #17

I tried searching for the original article, but this is the closest I could find that had a better writeup than from the telegraph: https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regene... This is the most relevant summary: "In both mice and a Phase 1 human clinical trial involving patients receiving chemotherapy, long periods of not eating significantly lowered white blood cell counts. In mice, fasting cycles…

It's not a fad, there is quite a wealth of research supporting it's efficacy[1][2][3]. That also doesn't mean you need to fast for 3 days straight to consider your fasting intermittent - you can go 16 hours without eating and still reap the benefits. Skip breakfast and concentrate your calories into lunch and dinner - now you are intermittent fasting. [1] http://easacademy.org/trainer-resources/article/intermittent..…

I read all three articles but I can't find where anyone claims that 16 hours of fasting are as beneficial as 3 days from the perspective of rebooting the immune system.

Can you point that one out?

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#117

Post by markkat » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:09 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #115

markkat wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a personal anecdote, but I was getting colds and flu-like symptoms several times per year for years. People I knew often commented on how often I was ill. I did a 3-day fast two years ago, and haven't had much more than a scratchy throat for about two days since. It could be coincidence, but other people have noticed and commented on my healthier state. I haven't significantly changed my behavior otherwise.

It has to be a coincidence. I can't imagine what the health benefits of a single 3-day fast could be that they would be so massive as to change your entire health for years.

Quite possibly. However, if I found myself in a similar situation years from now, I would try it again.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#118

Post by adwn » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:10 PM UTC

calebm wrote: post #84

gtirloni wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Toxicological Function of Adipose Tissue: Focus on Persistent Organic Pollutants" http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/wp-content/uploads/121/2/ehp.120548... "The studies discussed here indicate that AT (Adipose tissue) plays a central role in POP (persistent organic pollutants) toxicology. This role is complex and may seem paradoxical. Indeed, there is evidence that AT is protective under conditions of acute or subacute exposu…

It is very annoying when people dismiss anything sounding vaguely like "alternative therapy" out of fear of quackery. I remember reading a comment on Reddit where someone denied there the body ever contains any toxins... apparently they were not familiar that the liver and kidneys have a purpose.

Nobody (well, nearly nobody) denies that the body contains toxic substances. The disputed claim is that various fasting methods will remove those toxins, for which there is no evidence (in typical "alternative therapy" fashion). Of course, this doesn't mean that fasting can't have other health benefits.

Want to help your body shed toxins? Drink some water, and your kidneys will get rid of them. The view that fasting will flush them out of your system appears to be wrong, though.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#119

Post by gtirloni » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:14 PM UTC

adwn wrote: post #118

calebm wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very annoying when people dismiss anything sounding vaguely like "alternative therapy" out of fear of quackery. I remember reading a comment on Reddit where someone denied there the body ever contains any toxins... apparently they were not familiar that the liver and kidneys have a purpose.

Nobody (well, nearly nobody) denies that the body contains toxic substances. The disputed claim is that various fasting methods will remove those toxins, for which there is no evidence (in typical "alternative therapy" fashion). Of course, this doesn't mean that fasting can't have other health benefits. Want to help your body shed toxins? Drink some water, and your kidneys will get rid of them. The view that fasting…

Do you have any evidence that drinking more water alone without weight loss will remove the toxins from the adipose tissue that have accumulated over the years? I'm interested in learning how that works in more detail.

Re: Fasting triggers stem cell regeneration of damaged, old immune system (2014)

#120

Post by davidwparker » Thu, Sep 08, 2016, 3:14 PM UTC

xarope wrote: post #21

wodenokoto wrote: post #2

Do they literally mean zero intake of calories for 72 hours? That sounds like a long time. How do you prepare for that nutrition wise and mentally? People eat at night during the ramadan.

Thanks to blue1 who found the original paper ( http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/fulltext/S1934-5909%2814%... ), I found this in the comments section: "In this study, the mice were allowed to drink water, but no food was allowed. In general, when limited food & water are allowed, the protocol is referred to as a "fasting-mimicking diet"" So no food, but water was allowed. Just remember the context: the mice were sub…

That paper isn't the original- it's a followup. The original is a strict fast (water only) for 72 hours.

The FMD (Fasting Mimic Diet) is for 120 hours (5 days) and has more food allowed:

"The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbohydrate)."