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‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

reuters.com

61–70 of 134 posts

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#61

Bear in mind that in the US, our lovely republican party literally made it illegal to research where the superbugs are being bred. In the US, the problem is mostly pig and cattle feedlots that rely on antibiotics to keep the animals from being sickened but he crowding. Naturally, there is no proof that superbugs are coming out of the feedlots, because the feedlot owners do not allow any sort of sample collection by s…

Should someone be allowed to sneak into a company's building, or pretend to be an honest employee, just to investigate potential wrongdoing? That's the government's job, not private activists'. If someone wants to walk into your private property and research your operations, you should have the right to tell them to beat feet. If there is a legitimate public interest then the government should create an inspection sc…

> If there is a legitimate public interest then the government should create an inspection scheme The problem is that the public doesn't always know any better or know what is going on without the undercover folks investigating and making a big deal about it. It would be different if we could trust policy makers to investigate some of the stuff or listen to the science, but at this point (at least in the US), that's not happening.

>That's the government's job, not private activists Sure, maybe it is the government's job technically. Unfortunately, that doesn't always work. In addition to the above, many governement oversight programs are underfunded or have had their power legistlated away. On top of all that, companies aren't always upfront with letting an inspector see the normal daily operations.

Ancedotes I worked as a CNA in a nursing home. They were commonly understaffed. This is fairly common with nursing homes in the state I was in. There was a state agency that checked such things, but it seemed the nursing homes always had a notice when they were going to visit. Suddenly, they had a lot of manditory and voluntary overtime available and stuck to the rules. If the visits were sporadic, more often, and they checked things like logs and historic staffing levels, I'm guessing this would change. I think the only way to get this improved would be for enough private activists to gather evidence from many different places and get state laws changed after making a public outcry.

Ancedote 2 I worked in a food factory for a day or two. Now, they were horrible employers for various reasons, but the facility was clean and there was a lot of focus on meeting food prep safety guidelines. In fact, there were USDA employees assigned to that factory, and they could not run without it. Actual oversight. But food factories might not have been like this had it not been for private activists, and it still isn't perfect. One still hears horror stories in small towns with a meat processing plant, for example, but I have no clue if they are true or not.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#62
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The thoughtless person playing with penicillin treatment is morally responsible for the death of a man who succumbs to infection with a penicillin-resistant organism." - Sir Alexander Fleming

OK and how do you locate and invoice all of these morally responsible individuals who have led to this resistance? It's hundreds of thousands of doctors. I doubt their malpractice insurance will cover this. And then aside from the unnecessary prescriptions, because the ignorant patient-consumer demanded it, is the ignorant patient-consumer who doesn't take the entire prescribed dosage which is itself the far bigger p…

I think you've mistaken moral for legal. We don't punish immorality except through social and cultural pressure, or to make it a legal issue, and then we aren't punishing morality so much as legality (even if rooted in morality).

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#63

My mother died from a MRSA infection after getting back surgery. It's really nasty stuff and a very painful way for someone to die.

I'm sorry for your loss. Hopefully we as a society can devote more resources to minimize the occurrence of this cruel disease.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#64
Hello. I work for public health. My job is to support the computer systems that allow epidemiologists to track 'superbugs' (and regular ones).

Deathcerts is an interesting dataset. It's not the only one.

Even if death-by-MSRA isn't tracked, I assure you that MSRA itself is tracked.

There's a specific class of lab test called "antibiotic susceptibilities". The results report includes a bunch of numbers that represent just HOW resistant a particular bug is to a standard battery of antibiotics, broken down per antibiotic.

That data is transmitted from the labs that performed the test to the state health department where it is analyzed.

Fascinating article, but there's NO WAY that Reuters had that much contact with state public health folks without being aware that they track lab results. Misleading!

Edit: elaborated about the susceptibilities results.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#66
This is terrifying. Perhaps we should be devoting more resources to fighting this than ISIS since it's literally in our back yard.

It seems like this is a problem nanotech could possibly solve. Microbes won't have much time to build up resistance if we can go after them directly.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nanotech-drug-resi...

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#67
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agro lobby is pretty powerful in the US. The people lobby - our dear senate, republican and democrat simply sells out.

Why does it seem like every damn thing we do for farmers is awful for others? I know it's not, we reap the benefits in lower food prices, but does beef really need to be cheap enough we can eat it 7 days a week?

>I know it's not, we reap the benefits in lower food prices, but does beef really need to be cheap enough we can eat it 7 days a week?

No it is. The total cost to society has to include healthcare costs as well. Saying, 'This lowers our cost at the dinner table' is only looking at part of the equation.

Never mind that people don't eat dinner together which is a by product of having super cheap convenient packaged calories available. Eating as a family increases child development significantly, it's like the cheapest thing you can do to give kids a good start.

Never mind that we don't really need nearly as much corn as we produce. When the farm bill came out and started picking agricultural winners, we turned garbage farm land into prime producers of a crop that we don't need. Then we added tariffs to sugar imports, then we put corn into everything, providing a cheap source of calories and diabetes, heart disease, perhaps cancer (most of the links here are still from correlation and haven't been proven as causation). Corn moved from a side dish to being in everything you eat unless you are cooking all (most) of your own food.

We have the (possible) super bug issue from our meat sources.

It takes like 50 gallons of water to grow an avocado but we do that anyways because irrigation water is subsidized in many states even as we start to drain our reservoirs.

It takes 2 calories of fossil fuel to make one calorie of food. We do this because it's still cost effective because of subsidies.

The whole picture makes it look not quite as cheap, we've just pushed the cost into other categories to hide it.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it seem like every damn thing we do for farmers is awful for others? I know it's not, we reap the benefits in lower food prices, but does beef really need to be cheap enough we can eat it 7 days a week?

>I know it's not, we reap the benefits in lower food prices, but does beef really need to be cheap enough we can eat it 7 days a week? No it is. The total cost to society has to include healthcare costs as well. Saying, 'This lowers our cost at the dinner table' is only looking at part of the equation. Never mind that people don't eat dinner together which is a by product of having super cheap convenient packaged cal…

> It takes 2 calories of fossil fuel to make one calorie of food. We do this because it's still cost effective because of subsidies.

I think "we do this because we can't eat fossil fuels no matter how many calories they provide, so trading total energy content for ability to serve as food is valuable, independent of subsidy" would be more accurate.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#69
post #5

My mother in law, a healthy 50 year old, recently died of an unspecified infection. They still don't know what it was or why antibiotics weren't helping. Ultimately, her lungs gave out after more than a week on life support. Was it a superbug? Dunno, and nothing in her medical record leaves any indication that it might have been, the world just moved on.

I mother died from this in her late 60s after a operation on her back. It was MRSA and we made sure that made it on the death certificate.

What was the process for that like, if you don't mind me asking?

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#70

Bear in mind that in the US, our lovely republican party literally made it illegal to research where the superbugs are being bred. In the US, the problem is mostly pig and cattle feedlots that rely on antibiotics to keep the animals from being sickened but he crowding. Naturally, there is no proof that superbugs are coming out of the feedlots, because the feedlot owners do not allow any sort of sample collection by s…

Should someone be allowed to sneak into a company's building, or pretend to be an honest employee, just to investigate potential wrongdoing? That's the government's job, not private activists'. If someone wants to walk into your private property and research your operations, you should have the right to tell them to beat feet. If there is a legitimate public interest then the government should create an inspection sc…

"That's the government's job, not private activists'."

Taking a broad view, I disagree. Everything the government is permitted to do is (or at least should be) ultimately by consent of the governed. Anything that is the government's job is only their job because the governed delegated it to them; it is the job of the governed first, delegated to the government. It is private activists' job; the government has simply been tasked with it.

I believe the governed have a moral duty to take back any such job when the government proves unable to properly execute their duties.

The line of "unable to properly execute" is, unfortunately, enormously open to interpretation. Morality isn't easy.

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