‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#31

Post by karmachameleon2 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:46 PM UTC

ocschwar wrote: post #17

Bear in mind that in the US, our lovely republican party literally made it illegal to research where the superbugs are being bred. In the US, the problem is mostly pig and cattle feedlots that rely on antibiotics to keep the animals from being sickened but he crowding. Naturally, there is no proof that superbugs are coming out of the feedlots, because the feedlot owners do not allow any sort of sample collection by s…

And Democrats are powerless to prevent the GOP from "criminalizing science"?

How about having the mainstream media news talk about it, and then some kind of general vote on whether "ag-gag" laws should be repealed immediately?

You think the public might support the idea?

Of course. It would be simple to get it repealed with massive public support and outrage. So why don't they do it?

Might it be that shafting the general population is a bi-partisan effort after all, just like with SOPA / PIPA / CISPA / NDAA / TPP / TTIP and so on ad infinitum?

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#32

Post by wildmusings » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:46 PM UTC

swasheck wrote: post #25

wildmusings wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should someone be allowed to sneak into a company's building, or pretend to be an honest employee, just to investigate potential wrongdoing? That's the government's job, not private activists'. If someone wants to walk into your private property and research your operations, you should have the right to tell them to beat feet. If there is a legitimate public interest then the government should create an inspection sc…

There is legitimate public interest as these sites are key components of the food production system. The point that the OP was intentionally making is that the government (via GOP leadership, apparently) has specifically excused itself from creating such an inspection scheme and done so in a way that seems comprehensive enough to understand the alternative paths "guerilla ... activist" scientists could even potential…

That the government is failing to investigate something cannot be a license to trespassing or lying your way to a private investigation. If you want government action on something, then you have to win in the political process. Taking matters into your own hands and assuming the powers reserved for the government is not acceptable.

===================

Replying to swashek below since I'm rate-limited: what are you talking about "thought crime"? None of the laws here concern thought or the freedom to publish your thoughts. They ban conducting suriptitious investigations on farms, which necessarily involves either trespassing or deceit in gaining access (e.g. an activist getting himself hired as an employee)

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#33

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:46 PM UTC

swasheck wrote: post #25

wildmusings wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should someone be allowed to sneak into a company's building, or pretend to be an honest employee, just to investigate potential wrongdoing? That's the government's job, not private activists'. If someone wants to walk into your private property and research your operations, you should have the right to tell them to beat feet. If there is a legitimate public interest then the government should create an inspection sc…

There is legitimate public interest as these sites are key components of the food production system. The point that the OP was intentionally making is that the government (via GOP leadership, apparently) has specifically excused itself from creating such an inspection scheme and done so in a way that seems comprehensive enough to understand the alternative paths "guerilla ... activist" scientists could even potential…

[deleted]

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#34

Post by alkonaut » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:47 PM UTC

badminton1 wrote: post #23

ocschwar wrote: post #17

Bear in mind that in the US, our lovely republican party literally made it illegal to research where the superbugs are being bred. In the US, the problem is mostly pig and cattle feedlots that rely on antibiotics to keep the animals from being sickened but he crowding. Naturally, there is no proof that superbugs are coming out of the feedlots, because the feedlot owners do not allow any sort of sample collection by s…

Farmers massively administer antibiotics so they can keep animals in crowded/unsanitary conditions. If antibiotics were administered properly that would severely affect their revenue.

So just vote to outlaw antibiotics use in healthy livestock and make sure there is a rigorous inspection apparatus?

Farmers are few, people who get diseases are many. Shouldn't be too hard.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#35

Post by dv_dt » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

codezero wrote: post #5

My mother in law, a healthy 50 year old, recently died of an unspecified infection. They still don't know what it was or why antibiotics weren't helping. Ultimately, her lungs gave out after more than a week on life support. Was it a superbug? Dunno, and nothing in her medical record leaves any indication that it might have been, the world just moved on.

There was an article a few years ago about the fall of the medical autopsy rate. Because it's unclear how we fund it, and most people aren't in a position of knowledge to request it (or in a financial position to pay for it), the rates of autopsy to find a considered cause of death have been dropping precipitously.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#36

Post by wildmusings » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

unfortunate4u33 wrote: post #26

wildmusings wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should someone be allowed to sneak into a company's building, or pretend to be an honest employee, just to investigate potential wrongdoing? That's the government's job, not private activists'. If someone wants to walk into your private property and research your operations, you should have the right to tell them to beat feet. If there is a legitimate public interest then the government should create an inspection sc…

OP: Government is actively participant in creating this issue. You: Well we should just wait for them to fix this very serious problem they're causing. I'm sure the party that's held social progress at bay for 40 years now is going to suddenly realize they're w... oh wait you're a fool and a coward.

>oh wait you're a fool and a coward.

I shouldn't feed the trolls, but the irony of calling someone a coward while posting from a throwaway account is too funny.

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#37

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:48 PM UTC

unfortunate4u33 wrote: post #26

wildmusings wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should someone be allowed to sneak into a company's building, or pretend to be an honest employee, just to investigate potential wrongdoing? That's the government's job, not private activists'. If someone wants to walk into your private property and research your operations, you should have the right to tell them to beat feet. If there is a legitimate public interest then the government should create an inspection sc…

OP: Government is actively participant in creating this issue. You: Well we should just wait for them to fix this very serious problem they're causing. I'm sure the party that's held social progress at bay for 40 years now is going to suddenly realize they're w... oh wait you're a fool and a coward.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#38

Post by badminton1 » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:50 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #34

badminton1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farmers massively administer antibiotics so they can keep animals in crowded/unsanitary conditions. If antibiotics were administered properly that would severely affect their revenue.

So just vote to outlaw antibiotics use in healthy livestock and make sure there is a rigorous inspection apparatus? Farmers are few, people who get diseases are many. Shouldn't be too hard.

"The thoughtless person playing with penicillin treatment is morally responsible for the death of a man who succumbs to infection with a penicillin-resistant organism."

- Sir Alexander Fleming

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#39

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:50 PM UTC

karmachameleon2 wrote: post #31

ocschwar wrote: post #17

Bear in mind that in the US, our lovely republican party literally made it illegal to research where the superbugs are being bred. In the US, the problem is mostly pig and cattle feedlots that rely on antibiotics to keep the animals from being sickened but he crowding. Naturally, there is no proof that superbugs are coming out of the feedlots, because the feedlot owners do not allow any sort of sample collection by s…

And Democrats are powerless to prevent the GOP from "criminalizing science"? How about having the mainstream media news talk about it, and then some kind of general vote on whether "ag-gag" laws should be repealed immediately? You think the public might support the idea? Of course. It would be simple to get it repealed with massive public support and outrage. So why don't they do it? Might it be that shafting the gen…

> And Democrats are powerless to prevent the GOP from "criminalizing science"?

Basically, yes.

> How about having the mainstream media news talk about it

The "mainstream media news" doesn't work for the Democratic Party (in fact, it mostly is owned by corporations that preferentially support the Republican Party, though people tend to get confused by studies showing that workers in much of the media lean Democratic, as if firms were directed by workers rather than owners.)

Re: ‘Superbug’ scourge spreads as U.S. fails to track rising human toll

#40

Post by nikhilsimha » Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 4:51 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #34

badminton1 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Farmers massively administer antibiotics so they can keep animals in crowded/unsanitary conditions. If antibiotics were administered properly that would severely affect their revenue.

So just vote to outlaw antibiotics use in healthy livestock and make sure there is a rigorous inspection apparatus? Farmers are few, people who get diseases are many. Shouldn't be too hard.

Agro lobby is pretty powerful in the US. The people lobby - our dear senate, republican and democrat simply sells out.