31–40 of 43 posts
Seriously is this because of discrimination or due to some sort of "optimization" that is not explained in the article. Vendors speaking same language kinda thing perhaps.
Cant they make people do their Hajj in waves?
Perhaps no regime, other than maybe North Korea, has a more negative accrued karmic balance. And honestly, North Korea does less to screw up the rest of the world than the Saudis.
The Saudi royal family derives significant prestige from being seen as successfully managing the Hajj. However, they're not particularly competent at anything approaching governance or management, since being competent isn't a good way to get prestige, money, power, etc (being related to the right person, or possibly being extremely holy, is). So, you get continual fuckups, and continual coverups. Their debacle in Ye…
"Tents in Mina are reserved through the hajj ministry, which organizes pilgrims according to where they come from." Seriously is this because of discrimination or due to some sort of "optimization" that is not explained in the article. Vendors speaking same language kinda thing perhaps. Cant they make people do their Hajj in waves?
Problem is that there's a fairly strict clock synchronizing the motions of all pilgrims.
The Saudi royal family derives significant prestige from being seen as successfully managing the Hajj. However, they're not particularly competent at anything approaching governance or management, since being competent isn't a good way to get prestige, money, power, etc (being related to the right person, or possibly being extremely holy, is). So, you get continual fuckups, and continual coverups. Their debacle in Ye…
The Saudi government blamed Africans for the stampede even though it was mostly Iranians and South Asians who died. They're just making this tragedy worse in so many ways. The incompetence is apparent.
Even after reading the piece, I'm still struggling to understand the mechanics of it all. Under normal conditions, when people walking in front of you stop, you stop also so you don't bump into them. Makes sense, right? So you would think that as long as everybody obeys that simple rule of movement, this should never happen. But having been caught in a much less serious "crush" once, I know it's not that simple. In m…
>Under normal conditions, when people walking in front of you stop, you stop also so you don't bump into them. Makes sense, right? By that logic, there should be no car crashes.
Under normal conditions with rational drivers, there shouldn't be any car crashes. It's when the assumptions fail—distractions, obstacles in the middle of the road, weather, inebriation—that people crash.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I once saw a reddit comment that explained it really, really well: https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3pcvfb/saudi_arab...
There's also a good New Yorker article that made a lot of the same points, but in the form of a longform article, if you prefer that: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/07/crush-point . The bottom line is that past a certain "person density", crowds are actually governed by a lot of the same laws as fluid dynamics. When you introduce a "wall" in front of the flow, the people at the back don't even know it beca…
"Tents in Mina are reserved through the hajj ministry, which organizes pilgrims according to where they come from." Seriously is this because of discrimination or due to some sort of "optimization" that is not explained in the article. Vendors speaking same language kinda thing perhaps. Cant they make people do their Hajj in waves?
Regarding doing it in waves. Its technically not possible because its a certain time of the year that one can do Hajj, and its not a whole year thing otherwise it wouldn't be such a issue. Its a five day period starting on a specific date determined by the Islamic Calendar which is based on the Lunar Cycle.
So, For Example, the Hajj start this year on the 12th of this month and continues for a five day period in which millions of people will flock to the country. Last year it was 2,000,000 people in total.
At the end of day, it is possible to manage large crowds such as this but Saudi's are basically not putting in the effort. The amount of resources they have, don't justify this being this bad. Hell, Most other Islamic countries also often criticize Saudi's specifically on this issue. I think Iran has called them murderers or something for last years accident.
On a side note, why are areas separated based on countries of origin? If I were a muslim on the Hajj I'd be enthralled to be around people of all cultures and countries around me.
Even after reading the piece, I'm still struggling to understand the mechanics of it all. Under normal conditions, when people walking in front of you stop, you stop also so you don't bump into them. Makes sense, right? So you would think that as long as everybody obeys that simple rule of movement, this should never happen. But having been caught in a much less serious "crush" once, I know it's not that simple. In m…
While true, the reception at such events is usually non-existent due to the sheer volume of people with devices. Even with a healthy quantity of cellular base stations or wifi access points, there will still be serious issues and connections will be spotty at best.